would it be illegal?

[HotDog-Cart]

Yes. Its considered fraud. Which is illegal.

[17daysolderthannes]

you people are stupid on like 9 different levels.

First of all, the only way you could ever know it wasn't a real elite is if the paint job was crap or if someone checked the serial numbers. Second of all, worst case he could just claim he bought it from someone else and "didn't know," jesus christ, he's not robbing a bank, he's selling an XBOX, you really think eBay doesn't have enough problems with bootleggers and scammers to keep them busy? Third of all (and its downright shameful you don't know this), there is NOTHING different on a hardware level between a pro and an elite. Its all a flat black case and a different package of included items. I have worked on both side by side and its all the same crap. Any one who tells you different is a moron.

If you are really that worried, sell it as a "flat black XBOX" and if someone asks if its an elite, say you have no idea. I've seen much more deceptive things done on eBay, and getting a working pro that isn't technically a REAL elite is about the least-terrible thing that could ever happen. I would be much more pissed if a listing showed a High Definition Graphics Model 1 Sega Genesis and then they sent me a later non-HDG model. Or, in another case, when they listed a Laserdisc player and said "it will be exactly the one shown" and then the one they sent me was definitely not the same (it was from a High School and the picture showed big white letters and mine had small engravings) and had a busted faceplate among other problems. THAT is deception. If you have pictures, its up to them to figure out what they're getting. Then again, why waste your time? Just be straight up "there is no difference between a pro and an elite from a hardware standpoint, this is by all means functionally identical to an elite, enjoy" and just don't waste your time painting it.

[17daysolderthannes]

Illegal? Probably not. Against eBay policy? Definitely. Being a deceiving little jerk? Absolutely.

If you send it through USPS, it would be mail fraud, which is illegal.

no, it would not be mail fraud. Mail fraud is lying about the contents of a package i.e. saying its a book (which qualifies for media mail) when it is in fact jewelry or something. Mail fraud would also be stealing someone elses mail. Shipping a fake Elite is not mail fraud. Where do you people get your legal information? Barney?

[17daysolderthannes]

not to mention if it happens to get red rings and they register it on xbox.com... once that serial number is entered it will display what xbox 360 console they have (arcade, core, premium, elite, h3 edition, red elite) so i wouldn't sell it as elite, just do what that guy said.... sell it as a black 360 with (whatever)

if it gets a red ring, it won't matter, the warranty seal is broken, it would be all on the buyer at that point.

[Dark-Aries]

you guys know that warrenty sela is super easy to peal off and put back on right, just search 360 warrenty sticket on youtube.

[17daysolderthannes]

you guys know that warrenty sela is super easy to peal off and put back on right, just search 360 warrenty sticket on youtube.

now THAT is deceptive and illegal. You really think MS won't be able to figure it out when they open the case and see it has obviously been removed to be painted? The MS RROD fix sucks anyway, they just replace the board with the same flawed x-clamps, etc., you're better off just fixing it yourself with the screw and washer method. I have seen some 360s with a misplaced warranty sticker that doesn't even seal it closed, I could open those all day long and MS would never know, lol, but then again, they would know if I had done anything major to it. Even a disk drive swap would show up as the manufacturing dates would be off (most likely), well, if they bothered to check.

[nevermind1534]

Illegal? Probably not. Against eBay policy? Definitely. Being a deceiving little jerk? Absolutely.

If you send it through USPS, it would be mail fraud, which is illegal.

no, it would not be mail fraud. Mail fraud is lying about the contents of a package i.e. saying its a book (which qualifies for media mail) when it is in fact jewelry or something. Mail fraud would also be stealing someone elses mail. Shipping a fake Elite is not mail fraud. Where do you people get your legal information? Barney?

You are referring to mail theft. It would be mail fraud if shipped through USPS

Mail fraud is the attempt to commit some type of fraud (deceit, concealment, or trickery) by using the United States Postal Service (USPS) or any private or commercial interstate mail carrier, such as Mailboxes, Etc. Mail fraud may be committed against and by both businesses and individuals.

There are even guides on ebay about filing for mail fraud.

Where do YOU get your information from?

[17daysolderthannes]

Illegal? Probably not. Against eBay policy? Definitely. Being a deceiving little jerk? Absolutely.

If you send it through USPS, it would be mail fraud, which is illegal.

no, it would not be mail fraud. Mail fraud is lying about the contents of a package i.e. saying its a book (which qualifies for media mail) when it is in fact jewelry or something. Mail fraud would also be stealing someone elses mail. Shipping a fake Elite is not mail fraud. Where do you people get your legal information? Barney?

You are referring to mail theft. It would be mail fraud if shipped through USPS

Mail fraud is the attempt to commit some type of fraud (deceit, concealment, or trickery) by using the United States Postal Service (USPS) or any private or commercial interstate mail carrier, such as Mailboxes, Etc. Mail fraud may be committed against and by both businesses and individuals.

There are even guides on ebay about filing for mail fraud.

Where do YOU get your information from?

that "guide" is crap, if anything it pertains to people not shipping anything. Shipping a fake elite is not mail fraud, ask an attorney, then ask him to castrate you for being so stupid. Like, really? shipping a fake elite is mail fraud? REALLY? you REALLY believe that? If the item pictured in the listing is shipped, it is not mail fraud.

An example of mail fraud would be mailing people a fake insurance policy application to steal someone's credit card number.

Selling a fake elite could constitute fraud, but played correctly could be thrown out on grounds that the seller "didn't know it wasn't a real elite," as if such a trivial thing would ever go to court.

You guys live in some weird ass fantasy land man, I'll let you know when the FBI busts down my door for removing the RF shield from a Nintendo and downloading some ROMs.

Believe it or not, government agencies DO have some real problems to deal with, like murder and grand theft, not policing the authenticity of an XBOX sold on eBay.

[Twilight Wolf]

So you condone deceiving people out of their money, 17daysolderthannes?

Look, it's fraud if it's sold as an Elite when you know it's not, no matter how you want to analyze it. It's cheating people, plain and simple, and when said cheating involves other people's money, you'd have a big mess on your hands.

Forgive me if I missed something, but what's stopping you from just selling it as a custom-painted Xbox 360? It's not like you modded the DVD drive to run backups, you just painted it, so you should have no problem with selling it. As long as you make it clear that the warranty has been voided to paint it and that the buyer would be purchasing it at their own risk, I think you'd be in the clear so long as you held up your end of the transaction.

Just... don't sell it as an Elite.

[Black Six]

Look, it's fraud if it's sold as an Elite when you know it's not, no matter how you want to analyze it. It's cheating people, plain and simple, and when said cheating involves other people's money, you'd have a big mess on your hands.

Forgive me if I missed something, but what's stopping you from just selling it as a custom-painted Xbox 360? It's not like you modded the DVD drive to run backups, you just painted it, so you should have no problem with selling it. As long as you make it clear that the warranty has been voided to paint it and that the buyer would be purchasing it at their own risk, I think you'd be in the clear so long as you held up your end of the transaction.

Just... don't sell it as an Elite.

I think this sums it up, so before the argument continues, closerized.