LED mods are terrible. We must fix this!

[jjhammerstein]

That looks great!
I'm very excited about this endeavor.

[palmertech]

Still working on driving them, so far they work off my bench power supply, now I need a portable solution.

The strip I have is only long enough to go along the bottom, then up one side, though. I have a few to experiment with, so I will see if an extra row on the top makes a real difference.

As a side question, how much crisper is RGB vs composite? I have heard a few people say that using the RGB mod usually gives lacking results, and that for N64 composite is better. Can you confirm/deny this?

And very nice work on those screens! Have you heard of/thought of doing the AR removal mod?

[daftmike]

I think you will find that using more leds makes a difference, initially i only used 10 leds on the bottom and whilst it was good i found that twice as many leds running at half the brightness worked much better, an 'L' shape might be better still. I'm looking forward to see what you come up with.

Actually the RGB mod doesn't crispen the image on the psone screen but removes some of the harsher composite artefacts, and eliminates the dot crawl and interference.

Overall it is a much cleaner and more stable image through RGB, you might be able to see in the photos on mario's nose and hat the vertical lines on the right hand screen are not apparent through RGB and playing them side by side you can really notice the difference.

I think most people's complaints with RGB on the N64 come from the confusion over how to do the mod, there are some great threads on nfggames.com forum and one here that details a great RGB driver for the N64.

It's down to personal taste, i recommend trying it out, but some people prefer the 'sharpening' effect composite give to the n64 graphics.

I have considered removing the AR film, it should help with the brightness and clarity, i'm just not really confident in the method and psone screens are hard to come by in the uk so i don't want to mess up and have a ruined screen.

[Kurt_]

Just so you're all prepared: This is what I got in my email this morning:

RE: Your request for samples of 3M Vikuiti(TM) film‏
From: lsthalhuber1@mmm.com
Sent: February 23, 2009 2:34:47 PM
To: Kurt Ber (kurtb89@hotmail.com)

Thanks, Kurt.
I submitted your request for samples.
You can expect to receive them within 7 - 10 business days.

Linda Thalhuber
3M Optical Systems Division
Customer Service Manager
Phone: 651-575-5780
Fax: 651-737-2212
Toll Free Phone: 800-553-9215
Toll Free Fax: 888-271-3358


Kurt Ber <kurtb89@hotmail.com>

02/23/2009 01:29 PM

To
<lsthalhuber1@mmm.com>
cc

Subject
RE: Your request for samples of 3M Vikuiti(TM) film






Sorry, yes. I have my emails forwarded to my personal account, it slipped my mind.

Kurt



To: kurtb89@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Your request for samples of 3M Vikuiti(TM) film
From: lsthalhuber1@mmm.com
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:00:54 -0600


Thanks for your prompt reply, Kurt.
However, I cannot find an original request from kurtb89@hotmail.com.
Are you Kurt Bernasch from McMaster?

Linda Thalhuber
3M Optical Systems Division
Customer Service Manager
Phone: 651-575-5780
Fax: 651-737-2212
Toll Free Phone: 800-553-9215
Toll Free Fax: 888-271-3358

Kurt Ber <kurtb89@hotmail.com> 02/23/2009 11:54 AM
To
<lsthalhuber1@mmm.com>
cc

Subject
RE: Your request for samples of 3M Vikuiti(TM) film








Thank you for your speedy reply. I discovered your site through a search for trans-reflective and brightness enhancing films, via Google. Imagine my surprise when I stumbled upon your product line that will be perfect for my task.

I am aware that the LCD will need to be disassembled, the task is not new to my staff or myself, nor is it very difficult.

Perhaps a better explanation of what I am using these for would help you to understand what I would be using these films for:

My company takes regular LCDs designed for cars, airplanes, boats, and other high-sunlight scenarios, modifies them to perform in sunlight, and resells them. As these will be used with a battery, minimal power consumption is an asset, however, brightness is very important for readability in a sun-lit environment. We are a small, start-up company, who is currently searching for next-generation alternatives to this problem. Our current method is to replace the stock back-light with an array of high-brightness LEDs, but this causes a slightly uneven lighting pattern. Looking at your product lineup, I found your TRAF II film is designed specifically for this problem. To increase viewing brightness, I was hoping to obtain two sheets worth of the BEF-II film, to use as your site instructs, as doubling the brightness simply by adding two sheets of film behind the LCD seems almost to good to be true. Lastly, the DBEF-III film would help capture otherwise-wasted light, and recycle it for another gain in brightness. Imagine how much power could be saved simply by replacing stock diffusing sheets!


The current application is a prototype 10" 4:3 LCD (Designed for luxury motorboats). As you can imagine, during the worst conditions (for the LCD), the LCD is exposed to direct sunlight.

As a summary, I wish to order an 8" x 6" sheet of the following samples:

1 sheet of DBEF-E OR DBEF-II
2 sheets of BEF III 90/50 5T or BEF III 90/50 M
1 sheet of Vikuiti TRAF

Please provide me with whichever option you feel would best suit my application.

In addition, I was hoping to obtain a transreflective sheet or transreflective laminate that would increase sunlight visibility. Does 3M offer such a product?

(Personally, I have always been completely satisfied with 3M products, and look forward to doing business with you in the future.)

Kurt



To: kurtb89@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:36:32 -0500
Subject: Your request for samples of 3M Vikuiti(TM) film
From: lsthalhuber1@mmm.com


Thank you for your interest in 3M Vikuiti films.

How did you discover our site?

Some of the films you requested samples of, do not fit with the application information you provided. Please review below and let me know which samples meet your requirement.
Our ESR, BEF, and DBEF are backlight films. With these films you will need to have experience with disassembling your LCD display, so you can insert the films to make the display brighter.
Our front surface films help protect and provide anti-glare/anti-reflection features to the display. These are aftermarket films which can be applied by an end-user to the front of the display.
Our Advanced Light Control Film (ALCF) provides privacy and protection to the front surface of your display or can be integrated into a touch panel application.
Our RPF and XRVS films are used in unique rear projection displays.
Our clear card films are used in credit card applications.

To ensure we send samples that will meet your needs, please send details re:

Size of display
__handheld
__point of sale display
__tablet
__notebook
__ monitor
__ television

Type of customer:
__OEM
__retail
__integrator
__end-user
__converter

Expected sales volume in units per year

Anticipated launch timing

Non-proprietary description of your application

What is your desired outcome after using our films? Select all that apply
__brighter
__improved indoor viewability
__improved outdoor viewability
__limit viewing angle (privacy)
__increase viewing angle
__protect front surface

What do you currently use to solve this problem?


Linda Thalhuber
3M Optical Systems Division
Customer Service
Phone: 651-575-5780
Fax: 651-737-2212
Toll Free Phone: 800-553-9215
Toll Free Fax: 888-271-3358

EDITED: Full Email Conversation Above. They replied within 5 minutes of each email. Quite nice!

[palmertech]

I think the worry over ruining the polarizer is silly. I used to be extremely careful with them due to all the warnings of "DO NOT LIFT THE POLARIZER YOU WILL KILL THE SCREEN!", but after spending some time backlighting gameboy pockets, and some mods on other screens, I assure that even if you pull up the whole polarizer layer, it is easy to replace. I have done it several time myself.

So yes, be cautious, but if you mess up, it is not the end of the world. Just get some LCD grade polarizer film, and you are all set. Then again, you are in the UK... Not sure how easy it is to get your hands on it. I will look into it.

@Kurt: Thanks for the heads up. I will wait to see how you get through the process, then I will try.

[daftmike]

Maybe i'll give the AR removal a try then.

If you're interested this is the full-size pic showing the difference between RGB and composite, look at the signpost and mario's left side.

[Kurt_]

For a mini SNES (at least for me), the difference between RGB and composite was negligible.

In addition: It seems like only recently that we've decided Ben's methods can be improved upon, and that we've actively started going out and doing something about it.

[XCVG]

Maybe i'll give the AR removal a try then.

If you're interested this is the full-size pic showing the difference between RGB and composite, look at the signpost and mario's left side.

Which side is RGB?

[bacteria]

I think most people's complaints with RGB on the N64 come from the confusion over how to do the mod, there are some great threads on nfggames.com forum and one here that details a great RGB driver for the N64.

The UK N64 can't do RGB, only composite; if you want RGB on PAL, you need an N64 from Australia (expensive).

[daftmike]

Thanks, but i am well aware of which n64s can do RGB.

Most early NTSC units and some early PAL french units can be modded to do it, not australian?!

Specifically the NUS-001(FRA), these consoles had additional hardware that mean their rgb output was almost complete, they even have the same rgb amp chip as was in the SNES just without all the connections on the board.

Although i don't have an NUS-001(FRA), i am using an ntsc model with it's PIF chip swapped from a PAL n64 and it absolutely outputs in RGB.

Also both PAL and NTSC consoles can do s-video, not just composite.

[bacteria]

Excellent.

Yes, Australian, apparently - their PAL units have the RGB.

As you say, early French N64's too; however France is SECAM, so not sure if that is close enough to PAL or not.

Interesting about changing the PIF chip - please give more details... (pics, guide, etc). Did you just change a chip or need to do other work too??

Sure, they do s-video too, as you say.

[XCVG]

I lol'ed at Kurt's fake company.

[daftmike]

@bacteria, PAL, SECAM, NTSC etc. are to do with colour information, they're only relevant to composite video.
it's probably best to leave this thread about the backlighting, i'll open a new one in the n64 forum to discuss the other stuff.

[Kurt_]

If you've ever seen a higher-up in action, they only skim, and read the ends for the TL;DR version of stuff. Write a crapload, and they won't read most of it.

Also, I'm hoping to find some trans-reflective material, as I'm performing an LED mod on the University's Solar Car, and it's still gotta be really friggin bright, since it'll be in direct sunlight.

Proof of my theory? 3M DOES carry a trans-reflective film that replaces the rear polarizer. Too risky for my tastes, but they didn't even bother to mention it. It's a sort of "yeah sure whatever" scenario.

[daftmike]

excellent, i saw you've managed to snag some samples

if you can, you should try the 3M sheets with the original back light first, so you can see the improvements with ideal lighting

a transflective psone screen in a portable would be fantastic!