512 game multi-cart

Post by **gannon** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:05 pm

hmm....Mindstein said that his friend made a pal version of the cart, and he was developing a ntsc one. The site link you gave is a pal cart, I wonder if it's Mindstein's friend?

mindstein · Post by **mindstein** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:22 pm

Hi the cart that you have linked to is the cart that I am making.

Like I said Robert designed the circuit and he is not interested in selling them. He did it just for fun.

I have spoken with him many times and he is very nice and helpfull.
He only made one 256 game PAL version cart. and never made any more.

I asked him and he is not interested in selling them.

He is helping me make my own for me and my freinds. Like I said I will also have a few extra for some on this forum.

The fact that is Roberts design and he dosen't want to sell them is the reason I will not be making them and selling them at AtariAge or any other store.

he explained to me all of the stuff that you need to etch, program and make your own, and after I am done I will post a "how to" so everyone dosen't bother him on all of the steps.

As for the price, Like I said I was making them for fun and was foing to have a few extra and was offering them to the people on this forum.

If you can make your own for less than $25 to $50 then go right ahead.

But I am at a loss to see how you will make it for mutch less.

DigiKey prices are as follows.

2 x UV erasable chips 8.06 = 16.12
2 x rotery dips HEX extended 3.02 = 6.04
2 x rotery knobs for dips 0.76 = 1.52
10 x 47k resistors = 2.00
2 x additionl resistors 330u and 10k= 0.40
2 x 100nf caps 0.56 = 1.12
1 x 200 pf = 0.29
1 x switch spdt = 1.23
1 x transistor bc639 = 1.31
2 IC sockets = 1.00 = 2.00
Copper board = 3.10
The total so far is $35.13
Now include shipping of $10.
and you are at 45.13
Now that is the cheapest if you wire it with jumpers and no case.

If you add a case which is 2.00 or 4.00 depending on the one you get
You are at almost $50.00

Now consider that I am not "hot wireing them"

I am etching proper boards.

So the etch solution was $40
And I spent $15 on the toner transfer paper.
And I spent $150 on a EPROM programer and an EPROM eraser.
PCB etch tank (normaly $125) I made my own for $35
So I spent $240 on the stuff to make the PCB boards.

Also now factor in the time it will take to make it and then drill about a hundred holes, then assemble them, and finaly tuck it into a nice case.
And then print lables and OH that is right another $10 for label paper.

So what is our total so far.
I will stop there I think you all get the picture.

If 25 to 50 is to much you must be expecting to pay like 10 or 20
And if you think that you can make it for 10 or 20 you are just nuts.

OR

mabey I am nuts and you can make it for 10 bucks. If you do please let me know how you pulled it off.

HK-47 · Post by **HK-47** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:28 pm

Heck! Bring it on! As soon as they're ready I'm buying one! Post back when there ready!

mindstein · Post by **mindstein** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:33 pm

Hi
I just read over my last post and it sounded kind of like I was flaming.
Sorry. I didn't mean to bite anyones head off. I just cant see how they can be made cheaper.

I have spent over $500 and don't have the first cart done yet .
I bought a laser printer also so I can so boards for my robitics also.
Instead of always running down to kinkos to use their photo copier

Roberts site was down for a long time and now I guess it is back up.
Right on. I have been bugging him to post it again.

I will be posting a pics of my progress in making them.

Right now I have the PCB etch tank made.
I will post pics of how to make the tank also.
It was very easy.

And have all of the stuff to make the first run boards.
I just have to do it. I think I will etch the boards tomorrow and I'll post a pic of how it turnes out.

vb_master · Post by **vb_master** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:23 pm

You can buy the custom PCB (everything included) kit at Radio Shack for $15. If you get parts from broken stuff, you can save more. I don't have an EPROM programmer, but I can get somebody to program for me.

Here's my Radio Shack price list (using Robert's diagram):

2x 27C801 EPROM (CAT# ???-????): $?.??
2x 32-Pin IC sockets (CAT# ???-????): $?.??
2x 5-Pack of 47K resistors (CAT# 271-1130): $1.98
1x 5-Pack of 330 Ohm resistors (CAT# 271-1113): $0.99
1x 5-Pack of 10K resistors (CAT# 271-1126): $0.99
2x Hex code switchs (CAT# ???-????)): $?.??
1x Toggle SPDT (CAT# 275-654): $3.49
2x 100nF capacitors (CAT# ???-????): $?.??
1x 220pF capacitors (CAT# ???-????): $?.??
1x BC639 (CAT# ???-????): $?.??

Comes out to $7.45 plus tax for the components for the board at Radio Shack.

Now, to make the board at Radio Shack:

1x PC Board Kit (CAT# 276-1576): $15.49

Comes out to $22.94 plus tax and components for the project at Radio Shack.

You will need to buy the 27C801 EPROMS, 32-pin IC socket, Hex Code switches, 100nF capacitors, 220pF capacitors, and the BC639 at Mouser or Digikey.

There, proof that you should be able to build it cheap, with minimal outsourcing through mail-order.

mindstein · Post by **mindstein** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:54 pm

Again I dont see how yours is cheeper.

Your total is 22.94 and you have left out half of the components and say get them at digikey.

So ok the missing components in your post add up to 26.88 from digikey

So your 22.94 + the 26.88 for the stuff that you lableled ??? = 49.82

Now you need a case and lable.

I was saying it would cost 50. so how are you saving money????

mindstein · Post by **mindstein** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:09 pm

hi vb_master,
Like I said I will only have a few extra for sale, and I might just give them away to helpfull people on the forum. So this argument is moot.

It it enough to say that either way it will be about 50 and a bit cheeper if you happen to have some of the parts.

I will only have a few to give out so I encurage everyone to just make their own. It sounds like you are going to make one.

If you do I would be able to program the chips for you if you can't find anyone in your area that can do it .

I am in nothern california so they have to be shiped to me but is shoulden't cost much.

Also you would have to create your own .bin file with the games that you have. But that is easy also.

HK-47 · Post by **HK-47** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:39 am

So your saying we'd have to email you or something, all the ROMs we have? If thats the case, sure I got tons off atariage. (It took me 3 hours then I discovered the bulk downloads.

) Anyway best of luck on your project!

EDIT: heres a link => http://atariage.com/system_items.html?S ... TypeID=ROM
(From what I read on the forums there might be some "surprises" in there. Dont take my word though since I downloaded all of the ROMs individually.)

Post by **SpongeBuell** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:30 am

I used the bulk packages from AA, and don't have a problem with it. Between you and me, (meaning, it's kind of a secret on the boards) the activision roms are in the bulk package, but not individually. If they aren't, I have them. PM me if you need them, and I can email them to you.

vb_master · Post by **vb_master** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:38 am

More part goodness from various retailers:

2x 27C801 EPROM's (could you provide some more information, like which one - 27C801-100, or 27C801-120 ?) (from American Gaming & Electronics) @$8.58 or $11.18: $17.16, or $22.36.
2x 32 Pin IC Socket's (from Futurlec.com) @$0.15 each: $0.30
2x Hex code switches (from Allied Electronics) @$3.10 each: $6.20
2x 100nF Capacitors (could you provide some lead spacing/type of capacitor information on this?) @$?.?? each: $?.??
1x 220pF Capacitor (from Newark InOne) @$0.10 each: $0.10
1x BC639 (from Newark InOne) @$0.21 each: $0.21

from various retailers, the total now is either $23.97, or $29.14 (depending on EPROM), and the complete total, including Radio Shack, and various retailers is now either $46.91, or $52.08 (depending on EPROM).

All I need now is the 100nF capacitor, and I need some extra information on that, and the EPROM.

I am not building one myself, because I have an Ardadia Supercharger, which I modified.

Amazing it costs so much. What would you need help with? Contact Sean Kelly about how to intergrate a menu system: Sean Kelly's Multi-Cart page.

HK-47 · Post by **HK-47** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:42 am

If you ordered it like that youd have some massive shipping costs (plus the "you didn't order enough" charges).

mindstein · Post by **mindstein** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:55 am

Hi hk-47,
In the last post I was just trying to let vb master know that he left out half of the components and the cost of them would bring his total to 50.

It sounds like he is going to build his own or is convinced that he can do it cheeper. So I was offering to help with programming the chips for him.

If some one out there needed me to program the chips for them I was just saying that they would need to also supply the files that will be flashed onto the chip.

The way programming the chip works is that you have to take all of the roms that you have or want on the chip and combine them into one large .bin file.
Combining all of the roms takes a long time.

You just have to use the command prompt line to combine all of the bin files.
4k files are just added together and 2k files are doubbled to 4k and then added to the file.

Everyone might have a few different games that they want on it so that is why I said that you would have to supply the one large bin file.

After combining the roms you will end up with a large bin file that is 256k
That gets flashed onto the chip. Simple right

I will have a few extra and I do have some of your names on the list for them.

It is obvious that you want one and I will have one for Gannon for all of his help to everyone and for moderating this forum. I can't seem to find the post where the rest of you chimmed in saying that you wanted one .
I think there were like 5 people or something.

I only have chips for 3 extra carts but I will make many more boards and
can always get more chips. 2 carts are for me (that is 5 total like I said)

The etching tank I made can etch 10 boards at a time so I should end up with more boards than carts.

i am going on vacation on the 21 so I am mainly working on finishing my portable. The carts are the secondary project. But I am working on both.

I don't know if I can finish both before the 21. I guess we will see.
The cart might have to get finished when I get back on the 29th.

HK-47 · Post by **HK-47** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:03 pm

Take your time. If it takes that long it takes that long. I wouldn't want you to fell that you just "HAVE TO GET THEM DONE", then mess up or something.
Quality over quanity. Good luck getting them done though.

mindstein · Post by **mindstein** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:07 pm

Hi sorry for the double post but
this if for vb master.

Look t the spec sheet of the 27c801. the one you are looking for is the UV erasable one in a board mounted ship. They make several chip styles and the uv board mount is the one you want.

Also If you can't find the 100nf cap that is because Robert is in Europe and in Europe they lik nf instead of uf. So convert the nf to uf.
100nf = .1uf

Also as for asking Sean Kelly for help. I have and Sean created the cart but his freind Paul is the one that programed the Menu selection rom.

Sean is currently selling a multi cart through the atari store and is not interested in helping some one setup competition for his cart.
And I haven't gotten any responce from Paul the guy that actualy wrote the menu select program.

The menu select is just a 4k rom that is the first on flashed onto the chip.
That rom does the bank switching. the bank switching is not the problem.
How to get a menu for 512 games into a 4k rom is a problem.
Some people use an image for their menu, but Paul actualy created a hi res text library that he used to spell out the names of the games. VERY COOL!!

By the way I told you that the carts are expensive to make. It is the UV chips that jack up the price. The chips alone run $16 for 2

Post by **gannon** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:12 pm

hmm....could you possibly make the menu into 2 4kb files? like a page one and then a page 2 that goes to the next 4kb block?