What's Going on Here?

Want to just shoot the breeze? Forum 42 is the place!

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palmertech
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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by palmertech » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:16 pm

Skyone wrote:
palmertech wrote:I doubt he is losing money. If anyone can actually pull numbers, then I will gladly change my stance. Until then, I call BS.
Where do you go about saying this? So you're going with guilty unless proven innocent? Anyway, I spoke to Ben while making the showcase, and we got to talking about this whole situation, and even his ad revenue. It helps, but it doesn't completely pay for the dedicated server he's running.

Anyway, we've been over the same tracks a million times, and I can't believe we're taking the time to address each other just as we have before. No one is going to change the way the other feels. Bitter is bitter. Our words apparently fall on deaf ears.

Even if the ads do not pay for his dedicated server, the fact remains that both his own personal site for his business runs on it. And yes, because of simple math and a basic idea of how much bandwidth a PHPBB forum consumes, I will assume that the money the forums make far outpaces the percentage they eat from his server bandwidth. I am not exactly just assuming he is "guilty", I backed it up with a reason for the belief, and honestly, without numbers, that is the best educated guess I can make, so I am gonna stand by it unless someone can factually say otherwise. Also, note that I have no issue with Ben making money, but I also see absolutely no harms against my adshare idea.

And running over the same tracks? I believe I keep running over the same tracks, but I will continue to do so until you actually address me. All you did was skip over the post I just made (like last time) so you could pick at one small part of my next reply, completely ignoring (yet again) all the issues I brought up. So to be honest, I agree that "I can't believe we're taking the time to address each other just as we have before". Most people would have figured that perhaps one of the sides should change it's tactics, eh? I tried private, I tried public, I tried private resolution, and public resolution, and none have gone anywhere, so I think we know which side needs to change the way they address things, perhaps by actually addressing them.

Oh, and Skyone: Unlike some people here, I do not actively dislike you, you are not even one of the mods I really have big issues with. ;) If you are gonna say I have "deaf ears", though, you might want to actually cite a time where I behaved as such; I can do likewise, if you like. :roll:
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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by collinE » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:27 pm

Palmer, I really really don't want to be offensive to you in anyway, so I'm really thinking about how I want to address your comment. You make a few great points and it's clear you've had a lot of time to think about this.

I think the reason you got ignored in that thread a little while ago was because of how long it was. I'm pretty good about reading, but I stopped in the middle of your record breaking post. Your a smart guy, but brevity is sometimes more powerful than the whole truth.

Thanks for adding so much to these forums though. (not talking about the length of your posts)
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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by bicostp » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:12 pm

There are a few facts you have to remember:

- This site is run on a dedicated server, not a $5/mo slot on a shared server you get from places like GoDaddy and 1&1. (It outgrew those solutions years ago.) According to DomainTools, the hosting company is Softlayer. Go to their dedicated hosting page; the cheapest server is $180 a month, and if I remember right Ben said the cheap solution wasn't cutting it and he had to upgrade. I think he said it's one of the $220-250/mo plans. That's a new car payment.

- As far as we know, modding is Ben's full-time job. In between portables, there's the occasional side project, and whatever pocket change may be leftover after the hosting bill comes.

- In the past, he told me the site doesn't make as much money as it costs. Who knows if that changed in the year or so it's been since, but I doubt there's a goldmine there. (That's what I meant in the last thread when I said "how dare you expect to be paid for simply coming here"; the site costs quite a bit of money to keep running and I thought it was selfish to ask for a piece of the revenue when the main admin's not recouping the server costs. Essentially, that's like asking him to pay you out of pocket, because revenue is not profit.)

If you want to link to that thread, go right ahead. We'll reopen it.

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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by Skyone » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:34 pm

palmertech wrote:Oh, and Skyone: Unlike some people here, I do not actively dislike you, you are not even one of the mods I really have big issues with. ;) If you are gonna say I have "deaf ears", though, you might want to actually cite a time where I behaved as such; I can do likewise, if you like. :roll:
I wasn't even referring to you specifically - I'm also referring to some of the members here.

Seriously, like I've stated: if a dog's owner kicks its dog, the dog won't come crawling back. If some of you have such a problem with these forums...why are you even here?

Also, your lack of "active dislike" is irrelevant, and its mention is one of the reasons everyone is up in flames. Unlike a lot of you guys, I tend not to take things personally from a bunch of internet people. :?

If ModRetro is supposed to be driven by only peace and video game hacks, why are you and eurddrue here passive-aggressively (well, eurddrue is taking a more direct approach) defending its name when only eurddrue said negative things about either forum?

There is no reason to unlock the other thread now, by the way. This one has inevitably become the new battleground.

What is there to settle - honestly? The fact that some of your ideas got turned down? I'm not seeing the issue at large, as always.

...again...VIDEO GAME FORUM. If you want money so badly for browsing a website which is not at all paid for by you and will not stay if your requests are not met, then don't stick around. On the other hand, it's completely your choice (provided you don't break the rules).

Why are people acting like this is the damn Revolutionary War? It's a VIDEO GAME FORUM.

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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by palmertech » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:43 pm

bicostp wrote:There are a few facts you have to remember:

- This site is run on a dedicated server, not a $5/mo slot on a shared server you get from places like GoDaddy and 1&1. (It outgrew those solutions years ago.) According to DomainTools, the hosting company is Softlayer. Go to their dedicated hosting page; the cheapest server is $180 a month, and if I remember right Ben said the cheap solution wasn't cutting it and he had to upgrade. I think he said it's one of the $220-250/mo plans. That's a new car payment.

- As far as we know, modding is Ben's full-time job. In between portables, there's the occasional side project, and whatever pocket change may be leftover after the hosting bill comes.

- In the past, he told me the site doesn't make as much money as it costs. Who knows if that changed in the year or so it's been since, but I doubt there's a goldmine there. (That's what I meant in the last thread when I said "how dare you expect to be paid for simply coming here"; the site costs quite a bit of money to keep running and I thought it was selfish to ask for a piece of the revenue when the main admin's not recouping the server costs. Essentially, that's like asking him to pay you out of pocket, because revenue is not profit.)

If you want to link to that thread, go right ahead. We'll reopen it.
Fair enough on the ad revenue thing, glad I have some numbers. At least now it is not just a bunch of people (myself included, and probably more than the rest) throwing around wild guesses with no basis. :lol:

The reason I took offense to your "how dare you expect to be paid for simply coming here" was because it was in response to me explaining what I was going to try to do on ModRetro, and obviously, simply by creating ModRetro, I had proven that I did not, in fact, feel entitled to anything, but that I actually did something. So I was pretty miffed that you interpreted making a new site as feeling entitled to Ben's money. :facepalm:

Here is the old thread, re-opening it is cool, but I have little left to say there, I left the ball in the moderators court, as shown by my last post in that thread. http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31782" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by bicostp » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:55 pm

palmertech wrote:The reason I took offense to your "how dare you expect to be paid for simply coming here" was because it was in response to me explaining what I was going to try to do on ModRetro, and obviously, simply by creating ModRetro, I had proven that I did not, in fact, feel entitled to anything, but that I actually did something. So I was pretty miffed that you interpreted making a new site as feeling entitled to Ben's money. :facepalm:
Sorry about that. :( I didn't mean it that way. There was a lot of tension in the air then, and I guess it came across more harshly than intended.

Misunderstandings for everybody! :lol:

The only thing that bugs me about this whole mess is how certain individuals are basically using it as a crusade against this site and its staff, and take every opportunity to simultaneously put it on a pedestal and drag the whole community through the mud. No matter how diplomatic they try to sound, they basically say "HEY EVERYBODY THEIR SITE SUCKS COME TO MINE INSTEAD!". Constantly. (Now I'm not naming names, but it's not you.) That's what irks me; they're trying to tear the community apart, and that's something none of us want to see happen.

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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by snowpenguin » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:13 pm

Why doesn't everybody just forget about this argument? I mean really, what is the point of all this? You're not going to change anybody's mind, either of you. Why can't everybody choose where they want to be a member, and quit arguing. IMO creating Modretro was not just some blatant attack at Benheck.
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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by Zeturi » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:15 pm

I think all comments just fuel the fire.... Let's all just drop it, get together and fry some motherboards and somewhere around a million dollars worth of electronics! :mrgreen:
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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by Valium » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:44 pm

Oh you kids, bickering and fighting over every little thing. Is it ever so hard just to leave well enough alone? So modretro hates bh mods, who really cares? So a couple guys don't like you, why's that matter?

Most of em are still top posters here so their community can't be as perfect as they're saying.

And modretro people, if you're really seeking to get rid of the apparent tyranny of the mods here, then why are you here? Honestly, you create modretro to get away from here, and yet, you're here? Explain why you're still here, and don't say just to argue with bh mods. Are you gonna come back if they're nice and happy to see you? If we get an ebay auction system? If we have all the smilies in the world? I doubt it.



I'm Valium, I just don't give a copulate about what people think of me. Why should you be any different?
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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by snowpenguin » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:51 pm

They're here because they like being a member of both communities, as Modretro isn't exactly gigantic. People, quit complaining who's here and who isn't. It's their choice.

I just read the old topic, and this all came to a very peaceful end, so why does anybody want to undo all that work now?

I vote that everybody should say sorry and post gigantic hearts like last time, and then this thread should get locked while Skyone says 'Something witty!' at the end. I mean, really, what good is this doing anyone?
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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by Skyone » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:37 pm

snowpenguin wrote:I vote that everybody should say sorry and post gigantic hearts like last time, and then this thread should get locked while Skyone says 'Something witty!' at the end. I mean, really, what good is this doing anyone?
If everybody promises there won't be any more of this argument, then I'd be willing. :P

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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by Zero_D » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:38 pm

I think this whole thing got way out of hand. We need to forget the past, and keep in mind regardless of what happened before, both BenHeck and ModRetro exist now in the present. Both sites should not be bickering, they should be helping each other and inspiring new creative mods. I believe members should be part of whatever community they want, and ideally contribute to both. If both sides argue constantly, no one side will convince the other and it will only lead to tearing apart both sites and the modding community as a whole. We need to focus on bringing the modding community together, not tear it apart.

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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by Extreme_Jesus » Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:27 pm

<drama></drama>

please? :)

im sure we can all co-exist peacefully, even IF this is the internet :lol:

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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by totokan » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:39 pm

I've been away for some time now, and reading this thread makes me glad I missed all of this drama. It's the internet, you share a similar hobby, and you all have something to contribute. Don't hate, relate!
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Re: What's Going on Here?

Post by bacteria » Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:48 pm

I have kept off posting in this thread, however do want to make a few points.

1. Finally, this forum seems to want to encourage members to treat others with respect. I say "finally" for good reason. That is positive.

2. Some things are happening (showcase, etc) here encouraged by "competition" (for want of better expression), which is positive.

3. New view by mods here to start to listen more, positive. Before, even asking for basic things like forum sections got slammed.

4. Bic, pretty obvious you don't like me, it isn't "a crusade" as you seem to think, i'm not on a crusade, although all indicators are that you are. You make snidy comments, often, as an Admin you are supposed to be impartial and behave as such! (you aren't the only offender on this). That's your problem, not mine. You will have noticed that I am an effective Admin on the other site; fair and impartial, and democratic. You and others here don't accept the fact that you are quite a bit responsible for the reasons for the setting up of the other forum; so get over it - don't be bitter.

5. Skyone said "if a dog's owner kicks its dog, the dog won't come crawling back" - wrong, the dog bites the owner. You always have been happy to ask for people to leave if they don't agree with you, why should they? You leave! :wink:

6. Of course anyone can visit both sites, doesn't need your permission or blessing Bic. Everyone should be welcome on both sites, and are.

7. There is no conflict between the two forums, people vote with their feet and do what they want anyway. BenHeck site is run by their Admin/Mods how they want to run it, and the ModRetro site has its Admin/Mods and run it how they/we want; it's up to everyone to choose if they want to be on one or both forums, their choice - at least now there is a choice to choose!

8. No reason to fight and "dual at ten paces", live and let live. Both forums are here to stay, let's get on and embrace each other. As quoted on the last post "It's the internet, you share a similar hobby, and you all have something to contribute. Don't hate, relate!". Indeed.
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