Legality of selling portables

palmertech · Post by **palmertech** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:41 pm

themadhacker wrote:
Kyo wrote:Well, as a private person there are no complications. Reproducing systems (much like the retro duo is doing) and selling those may be illegal. A Company making portables, well it would be recasing someone elses product, so I doubt that's legal...
Actually, the retro duo is a liscensed product, making it legal. The sj3 is not liscensed, and I think that lead to the guy who created the sj3 getting sued.

Retro Duo is NOT licensed. Go punch the idiot who sold it to you at the local game store who said it was.

Obviously, pirate consoles are illegal to sell, but what about advertising? Would they have any basis on the grounds that you are advertising a "Nintendo" wii laptop without permission to use their name?

Also, don't some modern consoles (Like the PS3) make you click "yes" on an agreement when you turn it on that says you cannot modify or reverse engineer the hardware or software?

themadhacker · Post by **themadhacker** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:48 pm

Huh. I asked, and the guy did tell me it was liscensed. I believed them too, because that particular retro game store usually knows what they are talking about. I suppose everybody is wrong once in a while.

palmertech · Post by **palmertech** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:05 pm

themadhacker wrote:Huh. I asked, and the guy did tell me it was liscensed. I believed them too, because that particular retro game store usually knows what they are talking about. I suppose everybody is wrong once in a while.

See, I knew it was the guy in the game store.

So predictable.
They are saying it is because if you are one of the 1 out of 100 people who actually bother asking, then you likely care, and that may affect your purchase. Then again, it may not be the stores fault, it is likely their supplier feeding them lies.

ShockSlayer · Post by **ShockSlayer** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:20 pm

So then... If in unplug my modchip from my gc, and sell you my GC, but give you the modchip for free, is that illegal?

palmertech · Post by **palmertech** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:42 pm

Even giving that mod chip away is illegal.

Valium · Post by **Valium** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:05 pm

Anything that can play another system's games is illegal, unless it's made by the company that created the original system or is in possession of the rights to it. Unless you're talking about every console that could play Atari games, because that's a different story.

Post by **Skyone** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:10 pm

nightwheel wrote:Look if Ben could sell his book in stores. Then it should be legal to sell the portables you made.

It should, but that has nothing to do with it as marking information explaining illegal things isn't illegal itself to begin with.

collinE · Post by **collinE** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:20 pm

Skyone wrote:
nightwheel wrote:Look if Ben could sell his book in stores. Then it should be legal to sell the portables you made.
It should, but that has nothing to do with it as marking information explaining illegal things isn't illegal itself to begin with.

remember that the problem isn't modding your stuff, it's selling your modded stuff. And it's not illegal to mod your consoles, but microsoft doesn't want you interacting on xbox live with modded hardware. They'll ban your account, but you can still play offline.

Does ebay have a problem with it? I know the slot loading 360 guy had a problem, but Ben didn't with his PS3.

Kyo · Post by **Kyo** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:31 am

yeah, they thought the xbox was chipped just because it was modded

Post by **bicostp** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:01 am

Remember, the PS3 laptop didn't change any of the logical hardware. The slot-loading 360 kind of did, even though no changes were made to the firmware or copy protection system.

That's also why the 360 laptops are OK on Xbox Live; as far as they know they're a stock 360 plugged into an HDTV.

Kyo · Post by **Kyo** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:38 am

that applies to slot loading drives as well. The only modification is a mechanical one, which is really no different than a laptop

palmertech · Post by **palmertech** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:56 am

That slot loading thing was fine, it just comes down to ebay monkeys being trained to smack down any 360s with a "Modified DVD drive". They lack the intelligence to tell the difference.

HazmatB · Post by **HazmatB** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:34 am

I think this issue is more complicated than people really give it credit for being.

I don't know if Ben has, but if I were Ben, and I were going to quit my job to make and sell mods for a living, I would have consulted a lawyer regarding the legality of doing so. Perhaps he could fill us in on this.

Also, one thing that occurs to me is that if you were to sell a Portable that you labeled a NES system, but that was actually and NES on a chip based portable, you could probably find yourself in trouble.

I think for the members of this forum, who are doing this for fun, and only sell a handful of portables a year, you are safe, but for a proper company selling portabalized/modded systems, legal issues could be of concern.

Ben Cebhrem · Post by **Ben Cebhrem** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:04 am

Regarding NOACs- those are legal, but almost certainly not authorized by Nintendo. The hardware patents can no longer cover the equipment as it is 20+ years old. Software patents on the other hand, don't expire for something like 99 years...

It is legal, so far as I know, to mod equipment and sell it. It is NOT legal to do so on a large scale without first consulting the FCC and getting said equipment in line with regulations. On the small scale however, it is a bit of a gray issue- while it may technically need FCC approval (or whatever the equivalent in your country is), small scale operations tend to be ignored. Keeping things such as mod chips/firmware out of the final product helps also in keeping such thing going unnoticed.

My take? Not exactly legal due to governmental RF and such restrictions in the main, but most governments aren't going to bother a couple of hobbyists.

TAFKA_Cennar · Post by **TAFKA_Cennar** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:10 am

jleemero wrote:
Kyo wrote:Why would it be illegal?
Youtube commenters are about as intelligent as a newborn child.
(Most of the time)

I'll take that as a definitive answer starter. the only thing about selling used or modded video games is for copy write BS. all you need to remember is that you can not make a system play pirate games, you don't have a right to use there media. that's it. you can call it the FU-Hand-Jam9 Nintendo portable. you can make a joke logo every thing but call it a Nintendo by Nintendo. its a used peace of what could be considered art in some cases, cases of cases. plus if you did all that you could to break that, you would have to sell it to the wrong person. and they would have to see a problem in it. I don't see how messing around with used parts to make your own deal and selling it would be bad.