Questo o Quella: Does it really matter?

[grossaffe]

count me in as another in agreement with sparkfist's long-winded post.

edit: damn it, cut off by the page-break!

[Negative_Creep]

I think that the mods and admins are a bit too worked up over this. No I don't wanna pay for other people's health care, and I don't want to treat gays equally, but cmon guys, your getting a bit too worked up over this.

What does treating gays equally have to do with this?

[CronoTriggerfan]

I think that the mods and admins are a bit too worked up over this. No I don't wanna pay for other people's health care, and I don't want to treat gays equally, but cmon guys, your getting a bit too worked up over this.

What does treating gays equally have to do with this?

What does anything he said there have to do with anything?

[CronoTriggerfan]

Well, kids, we stand on the brink of moral precipice. After November 4th, if the election goes the way the Obamedia have portrayed it, America will not be the same, and it may take a very long time to get her back, if at all. For the next few days, I won't really have time to be here, (volunteering at election precincts, founding a Conservative club, reviewing some games to take my mind off it all) but for anyone with a valid voter registration card (none of this ACORN crap! ) and any scrap of conscience left, keep in mind these brilliant words as you vote:

For twelve years you've been asking "Who is John Galt?" This is John Galt speaking. I'm the man who's taken away your victims and thus destroyed your world. You've heard it said that this is an age of moral crisis and that Man's sins are destroying the world. But your chief virtue has been sacrifice, and you've demanded more sacrifices at every disaster. You've sacrificed justice to mercy and happiness to duty. So why should you be afraid of the world around you?

Your world is only the product of your sacrifices. While you were dragging the men who made your happiness possible to your sacrificial altars, I beat you to it. I reached them first and told them about the game you were playing and where it would take them. I explained the consequences of your 'brother-love' morality, which they had been too innocently generous to understand. You won't find them now, when you need them more than ever.

We're on strike against your creed of unearned rewards and unrewarded duties. If you want to know how I made them quit, I told them exactly what I'm telling you tonight. I taught them the morality of Reason -- that it was right to pursue one's own happiness as one's principal goal in life. I don't consider the pleasure of others my goal in life, nor do I consider my pleasure the goal of anyone else's life.

I am a trader. I earn what I get in trade for what I produce. I ask for nothing more or nothing less than what I earn. That is justice. I don't force anyone to trade with me; I only trade for mutual benefit. Force is the great evil that has no place in a rational world. One may never force another human to act against his/her judgment. If you deny a man's right to Reason, you must also deny your right to your own judgment. Yet you have allowed your world to be run by means of force, by men who claim that fear and joy are equal incentives, but that fear and force are more practical.

You've allowed such men to occupy positions of power in your world by preaching that all men are evil from the moment they're born. When men believe this, they see nothing wrong in acting in any way they please. The name of this absurdity is 'original sin'. That's inmpossible. That which is outside the possibility of choice is also outside the province of morality. To call sin that which is outside man's choice is a mockery of justice. To say that men are born with a free will but with a tendency toward evil is ridiculous. If the tendency is one of choice, it doesn't come at birth. If it is not a tendency of choice, then man's will is not free.

And then there's your 'brother-love' morality. Why is it moral to serve others, but not yourself? If enjoyment is a value, why is it moral when experienced by others, but not by you? Why is it immoral to produce something of value and keep it for yourself, when it is moral for others who haven't earned it to accept it? If it's virtuous to give, isn't it then selfish to take?

Your acceptance of the code of selflessness has made you fear the man who has a dollar less than you because it makes you feel that that dollar is rightfully his. You hate the man with a dollar more than you because the dollar he's keeping is rightfully yours. Your code has made it impossible to know when to give and when to grab.

You know that you can't give away everything and starve yourself. You've forced yourselves to live with undeserved, irrational guilt. Is it ever proper to help another man? No, if he demands it as his right or as a duty that you owe him. Yes, if it's your own free choice based on your judgment of the value of that person and his struggle. This country wasn't built by men who sought handouts. In its brilliant youth, this country showed the rest of the world what greatness was possible to Man and what happiness is possible on Earth.

Then it began apologizing for its greatness and began giving away its wealth, feeling guilty for having produced more than ikts neighbors. Twelve years ago, I saw what was wrong with the world and where the battle for Life had to be fought. I saw that the enemy was an inverted morality and that my acceptance of that morality was its only power. I was the first of the men who refused to give up the pursuit of his own happiness in order to serve others.

To those of you who retain some remnant of dignity and the will to live your lives for yourselves, you have the chance to make the same choice. Examine your values and understand that you must choose one side or the other. Any compromise between good and evil only hurts the good and helps the evil.

If you've understood what I've said, stop supporting your destroyers. Don't accept their philosophy. Your destroyers hold you by means of your endurance, your generosity, your innocence, and your love. Don't exhaust yourself to help build the kind of world that you see around you now. In the name of the best within you, don't sacrifice the world to those who will take away your happiness for it.

The world will change when you are ready to pronounce this oath:
I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man,
nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine.

See you all on the other side of Socialism.

[project_failure]

Well Josh at least me and you know that socialism is wrong.

[Gamelver]

I love how horribly wrong Socialism is to Americans . Capitalism is more idealistic than Socialism, anyway, because it first assumes everyone gets equal opportunities and that people are always just and fair ...

As far as I can tell, the key is "All things in moderation."

/me looks up

Who posted that there ?

[bicostp]

Right because another 4 to 8 years of Bush is exactly what we need. We've been so prosperous and every other country in the world loves us. Iraq was a great victory where we accomplished everything we wanted, planted a self-sufficient government, and Disney is looking to build a theme park in Baghdad. All by 2003. (That was the plan, right?)













[/sarcasm]

[CronoTriggerfan]

What was so bad about the Bush presidency, again? Did your life chance substantially? Did the government burst down your door and invoke the Patriot Act? Are you on the No-Fly List? Have your taxes gone up substantially? And about this Iraq war, regardless of your disdain for removing evil dictators, how many Americans have we lost? Just shy of 5,000? I appreciate their sacrifice and believe in their cause, but people need to put numbers into prospective. This is off the top of my head, but compare that to the 60,000 who died in 'Nam, the 50,000 who died in Korea, and the millions who died in WWII. The numbers pale in comparison. National debt, you cry? America has always had a national debt, Alexander Hamilton intentionally set it up so elites would constantly have a stake in the welfare of a government controlled by the common man. All I'm saying is that a short evocation of history can settle most, if not all, qualms of Leftism.

As for any complaints of Capitalism, for the most part, everyone does have equality of opportunity (which is different than equality, mind you) in America, and either reaps the benefit of their labor or rots in the corpse of their laziness. Are there exceptions to this rule? Of course, and we've got an alphabet soup of organizations lined up to deal with problems should they arise. Will some people still fall through the cracks? Absolutely. But to completely surrender the right for all to economic freedom and sanctity to the well-being of a few is soft tyranny and statistically criminal.

Oh, and reality check, the rest of the world has never, EVER liked America. And in all honesty, those who hate us are largely useless, i.e. Germany, France, Sweden, Russia, etc. You really think a messianic Marxist is going to change all that?

Okay, now I really am done, because I've got a paper to write.

[project_failure]

Capitalism is the only thing that will allow for progress. Socialism will lead to stagnation and a limit to my freedoms.

If you feel so strongly about helping others than do so but, keep your hand out of my wallet. I don't ask for others help and in turn don't feel the need to help them. Everyone has the chance to make there lives better. Its piss poor decisions that lead to bad lives and it is not my responsibility to pick up the mess.

Personally I consider both Obama and Mccain to be horrible candidates. Both trying to shove there Ideals down my throat.

Why can't I decide what is right and wrong as long as I don't violate others rights.

[Rekarp]

Capitalism is the only thing that will allow for progress. Socialism will lead to stagnation and a limit to my freedoms.

If you feel so strongly about helping others than do so but, keep your hand out of my wallet. I don't ask for others help and in turn don't feel the need to help them. Everyone has the chance to make there lives better. Its piss poor decisions that lead to bad lives and it is not my responsibility to pick up the mess.

Personally I consider both Obama and Mccain to be horrible candidates. Both trying to shove there Ideals down my throat.

Why can't I decide what is right and wrong as long as I don't violate others rights.

Vote Bob Barr and stick it to the MAN!

[project_failure]

I feel that Bob Barr is better than the other two but not by much. I can't believe he is the Libertarian candidate. He hardly represents the libertarian Ideal.

[grossaffe]

I feel that Bob Barr is better than the other two but not by much. I can't believe he is the Libertarian candidate. He hardly represents the libertarian Ideal.

he has significantly changed his views from before. He now opposes the War on Drugs and is fighting to repeal the "Barr Amendment", which by the name I'm sure you can infer he previously wrote. He regrets his vote on the Patriot Act, and even then he only voted for it after they added the sunset clause. he opposes the Federal Marriage Amendment.

[RockNRoll!]

Obama's gonna tax the crap out of rich people like buisness owners who are gonna make up for lost income by jacking up prices and lowering employee wages. That means everybody gets hurt and vulnerable to government big-brotherism. But you can't have complete totalitarianism without taking away civilians' right to own a gun. Once that's abolished, the government can swoop in whenever it wants and control every aspect of our lives. If that sounds like fun, vote for <s>Stalin</s> Obama.

The reason people to work hard and accomplice stuff is the potential to get rich. If you're gonna get most of your money taken away by the government and given to poor people, why not be a bum and let the government take care of you?

[Aguiluz]

Obama's gonna tax the crap out of rich people like buisness owners who are gonna make up for lost income by jacking up prices and lowering employee wages. That means everybody gets hurt and vulnerable to government big-brotherism. But you can't have complete totalitarianism without taking away civilians' right to own a gun. Once that's abolished, the government can swoop in whenever it wants and control every aspect of our lives. If that sounds like fun, vote for <s>Stalin</s> Obama.

The reason people to work hard and accomplice stuff is the potential to get rich. If you're gonna get most of your money taken away by the government and given to poor people, why not be a bum and let the government take care of you?

QFT & BFE

Quoted for truth and Bolded for emphasis.

[grossaffe]

Obama's gonna tax the crap out of rich people like buisness owners who are gonna make up for lost income by jacking up prices and lowering employee wages. That means everybody gets hurt and vulnerable to government big-brotherism. But you can't have complete totalitarianism without taking away civilians' right to own a gun. Once that's abolished, the government can swoop in whenever it wants and control every aspect of our lives. If that sounds like fun, vote for <s>Stalin</s> Obama.

The reason people to work hard and accomplice stuff is the potential to get rich. If you're gonna get most of your money taken away by the government and given to poor people, why not be a bum and let the government take care of you?

fortunately, the American people will not stand idly by as the government collects our guns. That's one thing that the government would never be away to get away with in this country.