Someone tell me what went wrong with certain christians?

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Post by gamemasterAS » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:48 pm

nightwheel wrote:This is fact: The more science tries to prove the Bible is wrong. The more they prove it's right.
Care to show some prof ?

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Post by nightwheel » Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:27 pm

gamemasterAS wrote:
nightwheel wrote:This is fact: The more science tries to prove the Bible is wrong. The more they prove it's right.
Care to show some prof ?

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a112/ ... ionist.gif
Here ya go:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... let111.xml

http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/gn/gn047/biblewasright.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur
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Post by gamemasterAS » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:46 pm

nightwheel wrote:
gamemasterAS wrote:
nightwheel wrote:This is fact: The more science tries to prove the Bible is wrong. The more they prove it's right.
Care to show some prof ?

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a112/ ... ionist.gif
Here ya go:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... let111.xml

http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/gn/gn047/biblewasright.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur

Well I skimmed through these articles and I fail to see were scientist are diligently trying to prove the bible wrong. In the first it talks about a little piece of stone or whatever with the old testament on it. No one really believes hat the bible doesn't exist. If I was alive back then I could have wrote a random story on a stone to. I read the first few paragraphs of the second and fail to see it making other points then that a lawyer became a Christian. What are you trying to prove with the last one ? That a place is the bible existed, I would hope if someone wrote a book and made it off to be fact that they would include real places.

If I misinterpreted any of these articles please tell.
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Post by nightwheel » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:00 pm

First, The city of Ur was found because of the acounts of it in the bible.
The one about the little tablet. It spoke of someone that was little known in the bible. And that little tablet proved he actulay extsted. And as for the other one. It was a little of everything I found to be trustworthy.
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Post by gamemasterAS » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:08 pm

nightwheel wrote:First, The city of Ur was found because of the acounts of it in the bible.
The one about the little tablet. It spoke of someone that was little known in the bible. And that little tablet proved he actulay extsted. And as for the other one. It was a little of everything I found to be trustworthy.
So by that process of thinking I can write a story about myself in my town and because both me and my town are real anything I write in that story is true ?
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Post by nightwheel » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:16 pm

Ok, lets look at the bible in this point of view. It's a acuret history book, phlospy book and a few other things but i can't rember them.

Also the bible is basicly the same as the original doc. Un like Homer's iliad and the odyssey.

If you still don't belive me. Look for answers you self.If i remember croectly you dad is a pastor. Ask him and he should be able to answer you questions better that I can.
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Re: Someone tell me what went wrong with certain christians?

Post by Sir Games-A-Lot » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:27 pm

[quote="Kurt_"]Sure, most of us are Christian. Some are Jews, Muslims, and other minority religions in Canada and the United States. There's nothing wrong with the minority groups. I don't mean that in a defensive way, as if I implied something was, I mean that just as it's said. There's NOTHING wrong with the minority groups.

So why are some Christians so messed up?

We've all seen them somewhere. Nowhere local for me, but take for example the Christian Church scene from Borat. Real or not, it accurately portrays what some Christians are like.

Then there are the kind of Christians who preach what appears to be headlines from the National Inquirer.

Here's one I found just now:

www.jesus-is-savior.com/.../kurt_cobain.htm

[quote]Kurt Cobain: Satan Worshipper!

By Pastor Joe Schimmel

“Get stoned and worship Satan.â€
<a href="http://www.nerdtests.com/ft_cg.php?im">
<img src="http://www.nerdtests.com/images/ft/cg.php?val=5780" alt="My computer geek score is greater than 83% of all people in the world! How do you compare? Click here to find out!"> </a>

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Post by teraflop122 » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:34 pm

Ok, lets look at the bible in this point of view. It's a acuret history book, phlospy book and a few other things but i can't rember them.
The Bible is not an accurate history book. The Bible contains passages describing events which could not possibly transpire, throwing the rest of the text into doubt. In addition to that, the different pieces of the bible have been rewritten countless times over the past 3000 years. Changes were made both accidentally- by monks copying the text by hand- and intentionally.
This is fact: The more science tries to prove the Bible is wrong. The more they prove it's right.
Science does not try to prove the Bible wrong, not in the way you mean. Science goes about its business showing us how the world works. If something conflicts with scientific understanding, and that something is proven through experimentation to be correct, then scientific understanding changes. Science has shown us that the wave of a hand, or contact with skin, can not turn water into wine, for instance. IF part of the Bible is wrong- which it is- than how can we trust the rest?

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Post by Kurt_ » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:44 pm

My theory is this:

The bible isn't wrong, it's just that humans with little understanding of the world compared to us today trying to explain things that could not be previously explained.

They may call it walking on water. Jesus walked on the water. We think: "Nobody can walk on water! That's impossible! To walk on water you need those floaty air-inflated feet!". Back in those days, however, these inflated feet things may have been considered a miracle, because they are just an everyday item, and when filled with everyday air, enabled the wearer to "walk" on water.
Hey, sup?

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Post by teraflop122 » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:32 pm

Your theory makes sense, I think.

That being said, we no longer need religion to explain the world to us. We understand where lightning comes from. We know why the sun rises and what the sun is. We know where the mind resides and what happens to it.

I mean no offence when I say this: children follow orders without question; adults think for themselves. It is time for us as a species and a civilization to grow up, let go, and move on.

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Post by Triton » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:53 pm

im sure nobody here is arguing that jesus was not a real person or that some events in the bible happened but what I am saying is that the bible has been written rewritten edited added to and changed in all kinds of ways in the last 3 thousand years. for example the great flood of noah. its sort of true, there was a massive flood sometime in the far past and was written about in many societies, the bible story was most likely based on the epic of gilgamesh and so forth. anybody who says that everyhting in the bible is absolute fact should be institutionalized :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_%28 ... _of_origin

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Post by JAY » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:09 pm

The problem is prevalent in all sorts of people, not just the religious. Some of the persons speaking against religion in this topic are appearing to be just as intolerant as the people with whom they have a problem. It's sad that secular people immediately think "fiction" or "blindly following what they are told" when someone else mentions religion or the Bible, and yet when they are taught things in history or science class they accept that those things are true without any other additional sources of information. You didn't know what was true and what was fiction; the teachers told you what was true and you believed them.

Another thing that I find pathetic is the notion that "religion is a form of mind control, to tell you what to do or think". Is it just a coinsidence, then, that, despite having no ties to a religion, some atheists share the same opinions regardless? If you think you are an independant, freely-thinking individual, then you are a fool. All of your thoughts and opinions are the result of what you see and hear. You can't have an opinion on a topic if you don't even know that the topic exists. Thus, you must first be introduced to a topic or opinion, to which you can then agree or disagree. But in order to make that decision, you must concede that you have already been influenced by what you have seen or heard (else you would still have no opinion).

Your whole life consists of other people telling you what may be true and what may be false. You are free in that you choose which you want to go along with, but that choice is dependant upon the information that you were given. So why is it that, if someone chooses to believe one thing, and someone else chooses to believe another, that the former is being told how to think and the latter is not?

And a note of clarification: atheism is a belief that there is no god, a belief that is not founded within facts (hence, why it is a belief). There is no proof indicating the absense of a god. Any atheist agruing against religion on the basis of proof or facts is obviously unaware that his belief is not reinforced by proof or facts, either, and in his eyes such a belief should seem just as ridiculous. (Some people seemed to be arguing in this direction, so I wanted to point out this type of fault.)
IF part of the Bible is wrong- which it is- than how can we trust the rest?
An astute reader can also find false statements in science or history books. Does this same logic apply?

I wouldn't think so, since then, unless you have access to a particle accelerator and can conduct your own experiments, you would merely be (mis)placing your trust in research that shows that everything is made up of atoms, instead of actually knowing it for yourself.

No scientist can prove everything to himself by himself; a great deal of it is believing the proof that other scientists divulge.
Last edited by JAY on Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by marshallh » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:38 pm

I think you all need to realize something:
Faith is believing in something that science cannot verify.

My belief is personally grounded in things I have seen happen in other people. An example:
Back in 1999 my grandpa was diagnosed with terminal liver cancer. He developed four tumors which weakened him significantly. He prayed to share his belief with others. In a short time three of the four tumors went away. His doctor could not explain it.
During this time my grandpa was almost fully back to normal, he made a lot of new friends and shared his faith.
I remember going to Braum's for an ice cream cone. Technically he wasn't supposed to have any, but he was going to die eventually so he ate one with me. I enjoyed that.
Shortly thereafter he had finished telling all his friends about Jesus. Very soon the three tumors came back, and in a couple months he passed away. He had no regrets.

Now, I don't base my entire belief on this one incident. But, it certainly gave me something to think about.
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Post by nightwheel » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:41 pm

Well when the rapture happens you'll know then that god is real and miracles of god are true too.
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Post by Skyone » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:45 pm

marshallh wrote:I think you all need to realize something:
Faith is believing in something that science cannot verify.

My belief is personally grounded in things I have seen happen in other people. An example:
Back in 1999 my grandpa was diagnosed with terminal liver cancer. He developed four tumors which weakened him significantly. He prayed to share his belief with others. In a short time three of the four tumors went away. His doctor could not explain it.
During this time my grandpa was almost fully back to normal, he made a lot of new friends and shared his faith.
I remember going to Braum's for an ice cream cone. Technically he wasn't supposed to have any, but he was going to die eventually so he ate one with me. I enjoyed that.
Shortly thereafter he had finished telling all his friends about Jesus. Very soon the three tumors came back, and in a couple months he passed away. He had no regrets.

Now, I don't base my entire belief on this one incident. But, it certainly gave me something to think about.
That just seems like one large paradox to me, what did you gather out of it?

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