Programming: Where to start?

lifeisbetterwithketchup · Post by **lifeisbetterwithketchup** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:55 pm

I've been trying to get into programming lately, but I haven't really been sure where to start. I already know a bunch of HTML (not really a programming language), a bit of JavaScript, and a tiny bit of VB (learned a slight bit a few years ago in school, but don't really remember any of it). I hope to eventually know C/C++. I've heard that you should first learn C, then C++, but I've also heard you should learn C++ from the get-go. I've even heard it would be best to first learn PHP/MySQL.

Any advise?

Post by **SpongeBuell** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:02 pm

if you know HTML already, I would definitely say to give PHP/MySQL a try. It's a very powerful combination, and not too hard to learn.

project_failure · Post by **project_failure** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:11 pm

Python is probably the simplest language and good for a start. Java is okay.

Note: i am not a programmer and failed my programming course (to many assignments and not enough time to learn.)

ZN13 · Post by **ZN13** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:14 pm

Python is a great language to learn. It's simple, easy to learn and python.org even has documentation that's pretty good.

Check it out, python.org

Edutainment · Post by **Edutainment** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:31 am

If webdev is what you're looking for, I'd say PHP is an easy way to start. It's pretty easy to learn. I really want to learn a language like C++ but it's really hard... and my low attention spam does not help at all.

khaag · Post by **khaag** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:09 am

Edutainment wrote:If webdev is what you're looking for, I'd say PHP is an easy way to start. It's pretty easy to learn. I really want to learn a language like C++ but it's really hard... and my low attention spam does not help at all.

I think they make pills for that.

You could always learn QBASIC! It's Quick. It's BASIC. It's obsolete!

jleemero · Post by **jleemero** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:54 am

Well, where to start really depends on what you want to do.
Like, do you want to make games, or do you want to make text editors...
Or do you wanna make a whole freaking operating system from scratch...
Or simpler stuff, that just makes tasks you do now, easier (special calculators for instance).

For games, go C++.
Industry standard.
FAST!!!!
Very efficient.
I would NOT recommend learning C before C++.
C++ may be an extension of C, but the difference is immense and often confusing.
If you wanna go for C++, get Dev-C++ from here.
It's an absolutely amazing C++ IDE, totally free too, although no longer updated.
I also recommend this book.
It's what I used to get off the ground, makes things make more sense really...
Once you're ready to delve into graphics n' such, well...
I use SDL, as it suits my purposes.
You may want to go for a more advanced library.
DirectX for Windows and OpenGL for cross-platform.
If you go with SDL, I recommend thisset of tutorials.
All cross-platform and clear.
And don't forget, C++ isn't just for games, look at things like OpenOffice.org, all C++.

For simple things, like text editors and calculators.
Well, hey, VB all the way man...
It's very quick to learn and easy to use.
A Linux alternative would be Gambas, very similar and just as easy.
Sadly, I don't really have experience in VB, so there's not much info I can give.

Now.... Let's say, you go insane, and decide to make an Operating System...
hmmm.... KetchupOS....
nvm...
Well, you got your work cut out fer ya!
Here's where you'll probably go with C.
C is classic.
Fast, efficient, expandable.
It can be, and probably has been, used in everything and anything.
If you plan on writing an OS on your own...
Well, plan on the next 15 years of your life being 70% C books and Courses, and 30% KetchupOS...
Command Line based low end super slow 22 function KetchupOS....
Ya, write an OS, get a few friends together... About a schools worth...
C++ has been used in operating systems many times now.
C and C++ are pretty much the only two I would EVER consider for an OS.

Lastly, for things like, advanced calculators, automation, etc etc...
Python.
It's easy, simple, expandable, advanced, quick, free.
Python'll do just about anything.
A great all around.
If you do not plan to get a job as a programmer, Python is a great answer for anything.

Personally, I'm C++ all the way...
I'm happy.
Hope I helped....

twilightprincess · Post by **twilightprincess** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:40 am

Actionscript 2.0 ( flash 8 .)

Meh it was worth shot convincing you.

Felino · Post by **Felino** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:00 am

Try Coco or Carbon, both great for mac users!

(and c++ too)

sniper_spike · Post by **sniper_spike** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:41 am

I'm learning a variant of BASIC for I/O called PBASIC 2.5. It's for a robot kit that is based around the BASIC STAMP 2 microcontroller. I have to say it's quite easy so far. I don't know if you would be interested in that, but I think learning to program is more fun if you have a fancy robot to show off. Plus, you get to test your electronics skills, because there is a small breadboard mounted onboard for building all types of circuits (for sensors, piezospeakers, etc).

Just my two cents.

Oh, and the robot kit is known as Boe-Bot.

blackbox_dev · Post by **blackbox_dev** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:08 am

Learn Spin so you can program the Blackbox.

No, really, I'm serious. It's pretty easy (based on Basic but ever so more powerful), and its fun to use too once you get the hang of it. Of course you are limited to that one platform.

timmeh87 · Post by **timmeh87** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:13 am

the difference between C and C++ is that C++ is object-oriented (like visual basic or Java), and normal C is just... normal.

c++ uses all of the syntax of c, with extra bits. You CANT "learn c++ without learning c". I would personally recommend doing some simple command-line C first, to get yourself familiar with the syntax. Once you know C, both c++ /AND/ Java use the same syntax in an OO environment. I would recommend learning Java over c++; I find it a lot easier to understand, and its a very neat and clean language.

of course, its quite slow, but you wont notice unless you are trying to do something massive. I doubt anyone in this thread has written anything that would be noticeably slower in Java. Plus, the Java compiler/runtimes are a free download from the Sun website. You can get GUI frontends for that command-line compiler but im a hardcore command-line junkie.

At the end of the day, for all the crap Im going to take for saying this, I think you should finish learning VB. Once you know VB inside and out, it will be 100000 times easier to learn another OO language. ...

In conlusion:

learn VB to understand OO without the confusing syntax
learn C to learn syntax without confusing OO
learn C++ or Java.

Post by **gannon** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:22 am

What language you should learn is really up to what you want to do. I mainly use PHP for web/command line programming (although perl is a better choice for cli, just easier to use 1 language for 2 things

), C for embedded work and daemons, etc

Harshboy · Post by **Harshboy** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:29 am

You could do what I'm doing. Learn VB, then Java, then C++ (It's an AP Class so its Year long, unlike the VB and Java courses)

Visual Basic should be your first language to somewhat master, then move on to either C and eventually C++ or goto Java and stay at Java.

Post by **Skyone** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:26 pm

jleemero wrote:For games, go C++.
Industry standard.
FAST!!!!
Very efficient.
I would NOT recommend learning C before C++.
C++ may be an extension of C, but the difference is immense and often confusing.
If you wanna go for C++, get Dev-C++ from here.
It's an absolutely amazing C++ IDE, totally free too, although no longer updated.
I also recommend this book.
It's what I used to get off the ground, makes things make more sense really...
Once you're ready to delve into graphics n' such, well...
I use SDL, as it suits my purposes.
You may want to go for a more advanced library.
DirectX for Windows and OpenGL for cross-platform.
If you go with SDL, I recommend thisset of tutorials.
All cross-platform and clear.
And don't forget, C++ isn't just for games, look at things like OpenOffice.org, all C++.

Pff, slow C++ is SLOW in any comparison to other languages. Not to mention C++ spits out a 200kb file for "Hello, World!" while Assembly would give out 1kb. C++ has a ton of useless code jampacked into it.

I still use it for some applications, though.

As for your OS comparison, C and C++ are not the most efficient ways to go next to Assembly. The only reason C++ is so recommended and mainstream is because Microsoft decided to use it in everything they do. If instead they were to program in Assembly (or binary, for that matter

), then our OS's would be 10 times faster.

In conclusion, all of these languages have their purpose in the programming world (except for maybe Python and VB

), but if you're looking to program with the computer at a really low level, I'd use Assembly.

http://masm32.com/