Official BlackBox News Thread

teraflop122 · Post by **teraflop122** » Sun May 21, 2006 3:25 pm

Think Black Box right?
Ok Black Plexiglass with the Black box logo laser etched on the inside
Have a top that opens to place the cd and cartridge (the cartridge will go down far enough to be concealed by the top)

But when you turn it on....the laser ethed logo will light up with the case! Selectable color Leds and the like it would be awesome (any controller design will match as long as its black) Wireless controllers would be ideal...

I must say I like what Krepticor has come up with: it's simple, it's black, it's a box, and it's got a cool not-to-gaudy lightup scheme going on. Using flat sides and straight edges should make construction easier, though I don't know much on that subject.

As for easy programming, we should be able to use just about any game-making tool that is written in Basic, provided some genius here can create a suitable compiler? Of course, we would need to go out of our way to use only a limited amount of colors... speaking of which, how many colors will be available? Iam7805 said 16 for sprite and 16 for backdrops, but chosen out of what amount?

dankicksass · Post by **dankicksass** » Sun May 21, 2006 3:56 pm

A Neo-Geo type controller is a good standard to use for an independent game rig. The controls are standardised with the DB-15 connector, and the encoder chip would then be inside the system, meaning less cost for the controller and an overall decreased need for encoder chips. Plus, there are many SNK controllers and joysticks already commercially available, which would make an individual builder's console build just a bit easier, and would open the BlackBox world to a vast array of quality gaming equipment.

If the BlackBox is made as a kit with a basic PCB and a set of instructions, allowing each user to build their own custom BlackBox, it would reduce overall cost of the project and development time. Carts and EEPROMS are difficult to manufacture and far more expensive than CDs; I'd ditch the cart idea entirely unless you were trying to make a console compatable with popular carts, such as Atari or NES software.

blackbox_dev · Post by **blackbox_dev** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:02 pm

@Kurt: I've been drawing up some schematics all day! It's just that some people started to submit controller designs to me, and well, if we can get the controller designs done now, then that's one thing we don't have to worry about in the future. And don't get started with that "well then your going to have to worry about the electronics later, which will be harder anyways", because I know, and have been working on that too.

See, its all coming together nicely!

Post by **Skyone** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:16 pm

Why are you guys drawing up designs before doing the hardware? Or have you done hardware?

blackbox_dev · Post by **blackbox_dev** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:34 pm

I'm drawing up schematics, their drawing up the cosmetic stuff.

Post by **Skyone** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:35 pm

iam7805 wrote:I'm drawing up schematics, their drawing up the cosmetic stuff.

If you would be so kind, to share some of the schematics with me? I swear I won't steal your idea.

EDIT: Not so much as schematics, but, proof of existance.

dankicksass · Post by **dankicksass** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:39 pm

I have a few comments on the general BlackBox project.

First and foremost, the project seems to be going in a non-linear direction. It has a name, and some general thrown together hardware specs, but nothing else has been presented technically. Some people seem to be focusing on external hardware design, but it's too early in the project for that.

Instead of trying to make something pretty, focus on the ugly guts of it and on the software it will run. There is no prototype, no true specs, and no software base. But you people are getting excited over a logo and trying to design controllers and plastics already. This is backwards thinking, people. Pull your heads out of your nether regions, and get thinking like a business team if you're serious about a project like this.

Also, on the hardware specs:

Why are you using such a fast processor? You're not building a system to run Windows, you're building a dedicated game console. 40MHz is excessive for an 8-bit system; a NES only runs at 1.79MHz, and even a 16-bit Genesis only runs at 7.67MHz. Your processor will consume excess energy and generate excess heat by operating at excessive speed.

How are you going to use a CD-ROM drive without an IDE controller? Also, by using audio-format i.e. continuous data you lose the file-marker-header systems typically provided by a data-CD or a ROM chip. You might want to think that one out a little further.

Anyway, it doesn't matter at this stage what the system is supposed to look like or what kind of controllers you use. What matters at this stage is that hardware and software development are moving along, not plastics design.

vskid · Post by **vskid** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:43 pm

I agree with Dan, make it work then make it look good.

Post by **Skyone** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:45 pm

vskid wrote:I agree with Dan, make it work then make it look good.

I'd hate to make a chain here, but that's what I'm saying. I doubt that Nintendo decided the Wii controller should look as it does before creating the inner.

vskid · Post by **vskid** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:46 pm

Skyone wrote:
vskid wrote:I agree with Dan, make it work then make it look good.
I'd hate to make a chain here, but that's what I'm saying. I doubt that Nintendo decided the Wii controller should look as it does before creating the inner.

They could've spent more time on the name though.

Post by **Triton** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:53 pm

well if you havent noticed he IS focusing on the hardware before anything. its just everyone else (myself somewhat included) is obsessing about cosmetics and whatnot, i for one think this system has the possibility for near snes/genesis level graphics and stuff

Post by **Skyone** » Sun May 21, 2006 5:01 pm

Triton wrote:well if you havent noticed he IS focusing on the hardware before anything. its just everyone else (myself somewhat included) is obsessing about cosmetics and whatnot, i for one think this system has the possibility for near snes/genesis level graphics and stuff

Those were 16-bit palette systems, this is predicted to be a 8-bit... at 40MHz?!?!

Post by **marshallh** » Sun May 21, 2006 5:08 pm

Before you want to start with a new project, no matter how ambitious,you should provide some details and it would be good to at least whip up a proof of conceptor something. Did you notice when I started GTP I didn't start with the final boxart or worry about when it would be released? No need to get too far ahead when AFAIK you haven't provided us with any details about the technical aspects of it (and you should be doing that first.)

Some things you'll need to know before starting:
1. Do you know how kludgy it is to generate a NTSC video signal? If you don't believe me, look at Rickard Gunee's picpong. His pong game is written in assembly, it's blackand white, and the times of every single CPU instruction had to be factored in to generate the signal.
2. How about using two PICs instead? One with a graphics API written in assembler that simply bit-bangs a NTSC output from external RAM while reading some simple instructions (putpixel,line etc) that the user-programmable PIC feeds it. You'd still have to write the main game code in C.
3. There's no way in hell your games will need a whole 650MBcd. You could just use a 64k eeprom and be fine. How about throwing in a MAX232 chipso you could programit straight from the serial port?
4. Keep your controller simple. If you have a complex controller like the PScontroller,you'll need another PIC just to read the controller! Stick to just buttons.

Even better, learn 6502 asm and program a NES game from scratch. Then you'll be more familiar with tiles and sprites and the graphics format that it uses.

Not saying it can't be done,you just need to read a lot more about this kind of thing and be realistic.

blackbox_dev · Post by **blackbox_dev** » Sun May 21, 2006 5:09 pm

Look, I want to use a 40 pin PIC for my console so that I have enough I/O pins to interface everything together. There's the 16F877A/P (20mHZ) and the 18F252/P (40mHZ). Both of them cost the same, so why not use the faster one?

@Marshall about using two PICs: Of course i'm using more then one PIC. In fact, I was thinking one for the main processing, one for graphics, one for sound, and one inside the controller.

EDIT: Me and Triton talked about it via MSN and we decided that the CD idea should be dropped. Ok, it's gone. I'm now using cartridges with a 24LXXX serial EEPROM. (which has already been designed)

Klefmung · Post by **Klefmung** » Sun May 21, 2006 5:21 pm

After you make the black box, hack it and make a BBp. Heh heh heh....