High Energy Density Cells

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Nimphious
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High Energy Density Cells

Post by Nimphious » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:42 pm

Many different types of cells and the technology used therein inherently have a variety of different energy densities. The most common cells such as NiMH are fairly acceptable in their life, size, charge rate and cycle count, but there are far better alternatives if you're willing to pay a little extra.

Recently Lithium Polymer batteries - as a good example - have become cheaper and more widely available. I've been watching this particular series of cells for a while now, and the current retail products on offer are satisfying enough to share with all of you.

This Lithium Ion Polymer Battery Pack boasts 6000mAh at 3.7V, and it's dimensions are tiny. As a simple reference, it has 12x the energy density of a lithium rechargable 9V cell, which means it would take twelve 9V batteries to match this power, and since one 9V is already more than double the volume, 12 would be 24 times the volume for the same battery life.

The main disadvantage is that you have to be careful when charging these batteries, as incorrectly doing so may cause them to no longer function correctly or even explode.

Fortunately there's a simple solution for that.

Unless you know what you're doing and have used this kind of equipment before, it's recommended that you force the unit to not be able to turn on while the batteries are charging, which is easy to do with the right type of power jack.

Edit: Updated the charger link with a better alternative perfect for this application.
Last edited by Nimphious on Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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samjc3
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Re: High Energy Density Cells

Post by samjc3 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:01 pm

this seems so Spamlike. i dunno what to do. also, if you are a real human, wrong section.
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Nimphious
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Re: High Energy Density Cells

Post by Nimphious » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:51 pm

I figured it fit here because the output of the cells was almost as if it were made for the gamecube. If it fits better somewhere else, please someone feel free to move it.

Sorry, hadn't been to these forums until today. Figured I might as well post something useful, since most people seem to be bent on using AA cells rather than something more appropriate.

Jidan
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Re: High Energy Density Cells

Post by Jidan » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:45 pm

Informative and good first post :P I want to assume that you work for that company, as there is quite a bit of discrete advertising in there :)

Those are very good batteries if they are telling the truth about the mAh and voltage (and the size is awesome) but unfortunately a 40$ increase in price each compared to the ones most people use is not significant enough unless someone has money to burn on a project.

EDIT: I just saw the side view. They are much to tall to be used practically by portablizers :P

Nimphious
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Re: High Energy Density Cells

Post by Nimphious » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:07 pm

I don't work for them. Have bought from them a few times in the past and they're pretty good to deal with.

Was mainly using them because they have those rulers on their images. There's a few other places around you could find them and likely cheaper too. I'd look but I'm currently shaped to 128kbit, so my internet activity is currently pretty much text-only. Tis a shame, since I was part way through some video logs on modding the N64.

Also, they're only ~19mm tall, you don't have to mount them sideways. I'm going to get two and place them in some rather large gaps I'm going to have left over. They save tons of space over using AA's or any other similar cell, only problem is the cost and charging difficulty.

Edit: Also, there are thinner versions of that particular battery, with obvious tradeoffs.

And by the way, this was my second post. This was my first.

Nimphious
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Re: High Energy Density Cells

Post by Nimphious » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:34 pm

Found another charger for the LiPo batteries with automatic management and support for three packs, which is perfect for the ~12V nominal from 3 of the afformentioned cells giving you 6000mAh (as opposed to 2000-2500 with good quality AA's) and takes up very little room. With some slight modification you could also possibly set this up to power the device using the external power even while the batteries are charging using a simple normally-closed switch connecting the battery power to the board's line, and switching it straight to the mains in (which, if you have a transformer with sufficient current output should allow both simultaneously.)

I might make up a wiring diagram or something later on.

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snowpenguin
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Re: High Energy Density Cells

Post by snowpenguin » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:44 pm

Okay, somebody hasn't been reading.

That link is to a set of 3 3.7v 2000 mAh cells.

And I'm sorry but no matter how you look at it, that cell itself is much bigger than a 9v battery, let alone three of them together.

Furthermore, those cells are the exact product found on sparkfun.com, a legitimate website that has been around for some time now.

You really don't gain much at all trying to use those cells, considering you can get a single 3.7v lipo cell at batteryspace.com for about $20.
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Nimphious
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Re: High Energy Density Cells

Post by Nimphious » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:57 pm

snowpenguin wrote:Okay, somebody hasn't been reading.

That link is to a set of 3 3.7v 2000 mAh cells.

And I'm sorry but no matter how you look at it, that cell itself is much bigger than a 9v battery, let alone three of them together.

Furthermore, those cells are the exact product found on sparkfun.com, a legitimate website that has been around for some time now.

You really don't gain much at all trying to use those cells, considering you can get a single 3.7v lipo cell at batteryspace.com for about $20.
Sparkfun and Littlebirdelectronics are partners. Many of their products are similar if not identical.

Also, let's compare a high density 9v battery against these batteries...

9V NiMH High Capacity Battery:

Dimensions: 48x26x16
Volume: 19968mm³
Capacity: 200mAh
Energy Density (Capacity / Volume x Voltage): 0.0901

3.7V LiPo Battery

Dimensions: 19x54x54
Volume: 55404mm³
Capacity: 6000mAh
Energy Density (Capacity / Volume x Voltage): 0.4007

Comparison 9V NiMH -> 3.7V LiPo

Volume difference: 19968:55404 = 2.77x
Energy difference: 0.0901:0.4007 = 4.44x

The difference here is clear, even with one of the best 9v batteries available.


I'm aware of the possibility of there being better priced batteries, I merely wanted to raise awareness of the idea that we aren't limited to the form factor and capacity of standard batteries. If you find a similar battery with the same form factor at a cheaper price, I'd appreciate you letting me know. I'll be hunting around again on the first when my internet is back to normal, until then I have to stick with what I know of.

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hailrazer
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Re: High Energy Density Cells

Post by hailrazer » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:33 am

Thanks for the information but we are well aware of Li-po batteries and their advantages. We have been using them for at least the past 2 years.

Here is my guide for the most common Li-po that we use here :

http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=34576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And here is the direct link to it :

http://www.batteryspace.com/highpowerpo ... arate.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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