Are 3rd party Developers trying to Sabotage the Wiis Success

Includes PS2, Xbox 1, GameCube (but not the Phantom Game Console)

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Jongamer
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Post by Jongamer » Tue May 15, 2007 5:31 pm

HotDog-Cart wrote:False.
False to what? that main title of the thread?

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Post by CronoTriggerfan » Tue May 15, 2007 8:55 pm

Jones, I guarantee you if you come back and play the Wii in another year or so, you'll see an entirely different console. The concept of motion controls in gaming is one that WILL work, developers just need time, just as they did to perfect gaming on the DS. Seeing as I'm quite sure that you haven't played the Wii in several months, I must say, there are a good number of games that seem to be pushing for a tighter motion control experience. WarioWare, Sonic, hell, even the Godfather showed us how the Wiimote could be used for kickass action gameplay. Again, in another year or so, you will see this console in a different light. :wink:

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Post by jones » Thu May 17, 2007 7:48 am

CronoTriggerfan wrote:Jones, I guarantee you if you come back and play the Wii in another year or so, you'll see an entirely different console. The concept of motion controls in gaming is one that WILL work, developers just need time, just as they did to perfect gaming on the DS. Seeing as I'm quite sure that you haven't played the Wii in several months, I must say, there are a good number of games that seem to be pushing for a tighter motion control experience. WarioWare, Sonic, hell, even the Godfather showed us how the Wiimote could be used for kickass action gameplay. Again, in another year or so, you will see this console in a different light. :wink:

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You are correct in that I haven't played one for a couple of months, but I haven't seen anything that's made me want to try it again. Sadly Trauma Center still looks like the most intriguing title for the Wii. I played it on the DS while waiting to record the last podcast and it was a fun time. My friend who just bought a Wii said he didn't think the Sonic controls worked well at all and his roommate couldn't get it to work either.

I did tell him to check out the Godfather: Black Hand Edition though since I heard positive things about it. I guess maybe this will be the core issue with the Wii over time: the controls work great for some but not all... Hopefully this won't be the case. Perhaps they can find a way to make it so players can adjust settings on a game-by-game basis in order to make it suit their playing style

I guess we'll see what the next year has in store for us. I would imagine in about a year or so we will be primed to have a next-gen (or should I now say current gen) redux for the podcast. :) [/i]

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Post by Brutuz » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:59 am

johnbjuice wrote:Since this thread has turned into the only real civil discussion of next-gen consoles I've seen, I just need to say this.

The XBox 360 or Wii is going to win. Either. I'm not sure which, but one of them, just not the PS3. Why? It's gonna sound wrong, dirty, stupid, and irrelevant, but it's true.

Below may be offensive! You've been warned!


Porn. HD-DVD will win over Blu-Ray because it has what Blu-Ray doesn't. Nasty, but look at DVDs! Why did they become the standard? Why didn't laserdiscs succeed VHS, then DVDs. No, not because they're big...

But from there, the battle is still on. Personally I think they're too different to compete, but hey.

PM me with your scathing remarks!

- Juice
Your forgetting one thing, the many, many PC gamers/overclockers/enthusiasts (Like I am) will want as much space for backing up as possible, most of us would rather 200gb (Octo Layer BD) and a little more cost than 30gb (Duel Layer HD-DVD, the Limit of Layers on one) on one disk, I have Three Hard Drives in my computer, a 8 layer Blu Ray is the same size as/ more than all of them (Not combined though, I'd only need two to backup everything) and most enthusiasts will be grabbing 1Tb drives, or will have a 150Gb Raptor Drive, and a 750Gb Seagate drive, they'd rather have 25 - 200Gb of space then 15 - 30Gb.

Personally I hope the Wii Loses, because if it wins, M$, Sony (IF they can make it through this gen) and Ninny will see that they can have really low specs, and still win if they have something innovative, and this will cause the Graphics Growth of Games to go down, which will be bad, as it helps keep PC gaming alive (nVidia and ATi need us to buy new GfX cards) not to mention games will be less enjoyable, now I know mosty of you will just cry "You don't need HD/AA/AS!" but would you rather play Sims 1 or Sims 2? or a mod that had all of GTA VC put into the SA graphics or the actual VC? Personally I'd get the SA version, because it has better GfX
, and Yes, I do like old games even when they have crappy graphics, I like to play TNfS (NfS1) occasionally, and I've always loved a game of Jazz Jackrabbit 2 or Super Mario, and more people would buy a game if it looks better, even if one game had the best gameplay in the world, yet lacked in Graphics, the Hardcore Gamers would pick it up(Dragon Valor for PS1, It rocked), but the onlygameafterschooloronsaturday group would get the game that has better GfX but less Gameplay (See Driv3r)

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Post by totokan » Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:16 am

The Wii, although it has an 'innovative' control scheme, should not be the way it is. Innovation is no excuse for the console's lackluster power. I have a Wii, but I hope it loses because it would set a bad example for the industry, and the power of next-gen consoles would be severely diminished, since you don't need power to attract a huge audience, it's cheaper to develop and it's cheaper to produce.
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Post by ZN13 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:49 am

Ill just start out by saying that I have Wii, but I could get a 360, or a PS3, in a couple years, when the price has dropped significantly.

Now, it's true that the Wii is not as powerful as the other two systems, and no, it doesn't have HD support. But it does have the most innovative control scheme, and the smallest price tag(only 250$).

They could have made the system more powerful, but it would have went up in price(300$-350$). They could have even went Sony's route and try to make it all powerful, but then it'd be way up in price.

Now I agree that the lack of On-Line games is pretty disappointing, but if you look at the 360 and PS3, in order to play On-Line you need to plug in a cord, but the Wii has built in WiFi, which is good for me because my room is VERY far away from my Wireless router.

Im not a die hard Nintendo fan, I also have a PS2 and a PSP, But my favorite next-gen system has got to be the Wii.
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Post by sammy » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:37 pm

Everyone's talking about how hard it is to port a game written for PS3 or XBOX 360 to the Wii, but that's just the whole point. They aren't writing the games for Wii, but for the PS3 or the xbox 360. Which means they already scrap the possibility of porting it to the Wii. And I know people might say that PS3 + XBOX 360 sales of a game would be higher then just the sales of a Wii exclusive but that really just depends on the game.

Now I am not trying to tell you that the Wii is being completely ignored. But fact is it is only getting ports and bad games that just wanna sell because of the Wii motion sensing.
I mean where are the big publishers like Capcom or Namco? Or even Rockstar for that matter. Sure they are releasing Manhunt 2, but it's basically just another port. And capcom is releasing some RESI stuff, but nothing spectacular either...

What would be more fair (and logical) in my opinion is releasing games like Lost Planet for the XBOX 360 and then releasing a whole different game for the Wii. Sure, it would cost a lot more. But the results would be way better over a long period of time. It's just not right that the top-selling console is not getting the good exclusives everyone wants.

Try to imagine this: the PS2 used to sell way better then the cube or xbox. Now if all the good exclusives would have been released on the cube and the xbox... that would have been just plain stupid. It's the same with the Wii...

Now I know all this is very pro-nintendo but I admit the Wii has it's (obviuos) flaws.
Some of them are (to me):
-low chipset
-no fricking online play (f*** friendcodes)
-no dvd playback?
-low resolution

But besides this, it's still the best selling console. And the PS2 was also the lesser of the three consoles (speaking of hardware).

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Post by Gump-in-space » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:05 pm

Ahem, sammy, 4 consoles. Dreamcast was also more capable than PS2 in a lot of places.

The Wii has it's exclusives. They're just not here yet. Metriod Prime 3, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, NiGHTS 2, and others.

Also, some of the shoddy games that seem to milk the motion sensing had little time to be developed. The ATI graphics card wasn't ready for mass production untill the very last second, so developers had to work with prototypes that weren't as capable as the real thing. Others like Ubisoft have announced that it's recent games were rushed so they could catch the wave of new console owners who wanted software. http://wii.ign.com/articles/792/792772p1.html

Don't get me wrong. The Situation is bad. Owners of the Wii won't be seing good exclusives untill the holiday season, which could hurt the system's sales (even though it's the fastest selling, sales could be much better considering it's competition...) This is totaly unacceptable. I suspect that beyond the huge sellers this year we will se a lot of huge flops. Each will cut away at the system's viability for 3rd party developers. And in the case of a system marked as a "gimmicky piece of crap" that is a terrible problem.

The Wii has about a 85% chance of overtaking the 360 in total sales. But if this year's 3rd party flops are repeated next year, it could be a total catastrophy for Nintendo, and they could litterally lose America to Microsoft and the 360.

So my final words are: Nintendo, keep up the good work. Everyone else, do some work for a change!
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Post by hy phrend » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:12 pm

ZN13 wrote:Now I agree that the lack of On-Line games is pretty disappointing, but if you look at the 360 and PS3, in order to play On-Line you need to plug in a cord, but the Wii has built in WiFi, which is good for me because my room is VERY far away from my Wireless router.
The 60 gig version of the PS3 also has built in WiFi.
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Post by XPCportables » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:02 pm

Brutuz wrote:
johnbjuice wrote:Since this thread has turned into the only real civil discussion of next-gen consoles I've seen, I just need to say this.

The XBox 360 or Wii is going to win. Either. I'm not sure which, but one of them, just not the PS3. Why? It's gonna sound wrong, dirty, stupid, and irrelevant, but it's true.

Below may be offensive! You've been warned!


Porn. HD-DVD will win over Blu-Ray because it has what Blu-Ray doesn't. Nasty, but look at DVDs! Why did they become the standard? Why didn't laserdiscs succeed VHS, then DVDs. No, not because they're big...

But from there, the battle is still on. Personally I think they're too different to compete, but hey.

PM me with your scathing remarks!

- Juice
Your forgetting one thing, the many, many PC gamers/overclockers/enthusiasts (Like I am) will want as much space for backing up as possible, most of us would rather 200gb (Octo Layer BD) and a little more cost than 30gb (Duel Layer HD-DVD, the Limit of Layers on one) on one disk, I have Three Hard Drives in my computer, a 8 layer Blu Ray is the same size as/ more than all of them (Not combined though, I'd only need two to backup everything) and most enthusiasts will be grabbing 1Tb drives, or will have a 150Gb Raptor Drive, and a 750Gb Seagate drive, they'd rather have 25 - 200Gb of space then 15 - 30Gb.

Personally I hope the Wii Loses, because if it wins, M$, Sony (IF they can make it through this gen) and Ninny will see that they can have really low specs, and still win if they have something innovative, and this will cause the Graphics Growth of Games to go down, which will be bad, as it helps keep PC gaming alive (nVidia and ATi need us to buy new GfX cards) not to mention games will be less enjoyable, now I know mosty of you will just cry "You don't need HD/AA/AS!" but would you rather play Sims 1 or Sims 2? or a mod that had all of GTA VC put into the SA graphics or the actual VC? Personally I'd get the SA version, because it has better GfX
, and Yes, I do like old games even when they have crappy graphics, I like to play TNfS (NfS1) occasionally, and I've always loved a game of Jazz Jackrabbit 2 or Super Mario, and more people would buy a game if it looks better, even if one game had the best gameplay in the world, yet lacked in Graphics, the Hardcore Gamers would pick it up(Dragon Valor for PS1, It rocked), but the onlygameafterschooloronsaturday group would get the game that has better GfX but less Gameplay (See Driv3r)
You forgot about one thing. The fact that Blu-ray is mercilessly stomping HD DVD in the butt. the last time I checked Blu Ray movie sales were beating HD DVD something like 8 to 1. There are only a few hundred thousand HD DVD players out in the hands of consumors where there are 2 million+ Blu-Ray Players.

The latest rumor going around is that Universal is jumping the HD DVD ship and going with Blu ray as well. Do you know what that means? That means that Blu Ray will have every film that HD DVD has plus all of the Blu Ray exclusives. There is really no way that I can see HD DVD pulling out of this mess.

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Post by vskid » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:17 pm

XPCportables wrote:You forgot about one thing. The fact that Blu-ray is mercilessly stomping HD DVD in the butt. the last time I checked Blu Ray movie sales were beating HD DVD something like 8 to 1. There are only a few hundred thousand HD DVD players out in the hands of consumors where there are 2 million+ Blu-Ray Players.

The latest rumor going around is that Universal is jumping the HD DVD ship and going with Blu ray as well. Do you know what that means? That means that Blu Ray will have every film that HD DVD has plus all of the Blu Ray exclusives. There is really no way that I can see HD DVD pulling out of this mess.
If thats the case, and Blu-ray players don't drop in price by the time we finally get one, I might be getting a PS3 as a cheap alternative to a dedicated player.
Or I could just sit this media battle out and wait for 100 TB holographic discs. 8)
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Post by XPCportables » Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:23 am

Sony is preparing to ship a $500 model Blu Ray player sometime this year, and I heard a rumor that some other company (I can't remember if it is Samsung or LG, heck it probably isn't either of those :D) Will be shipping a $400 blu-ray player pretty soon, like the end of this year.

I'm afraid that the holo discs will never be a movie format. by the time that they got cheap enough to be a movie format, there would most likely be no use for them. Digital downloads will probably be that standard. Holo discs will probably only ever be good for backup and massive storage uses. though that would be awesome to watch completely uncompressed audio and video 8)

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Post by cowsgoquack101 » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:59 am

The only reason I can see spending $250 on a Wii is Smash Bros., but that doesn't come out for like what another half a year? Then galaxy is an even longer wait.

The 360 is the best choice for me right now. It has Halo 3 in September, Bioshock (yeah it's on the PC, but I'd rather spend money on a new console than just a Gfx card), Fable 2(whenever that comes out), and Shadow Run just to name a few. Oh and GTA IV, you know that little known game.

For some reason I want to buy a PS3, I know it doesn't have many games except for like Resistance and such. It looks promising, but still no games.

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Post by XPCportables » Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:57 pm

cowsgoquack101 wrote:The only reason I can see spending $250 on a Wii is Smash Bros., but that doesn't come out for like what another half a year? Then galaxy is an even longer wait.

The 360 is the best choice for me right now. It has Halo 3 in September, Bioshock (yeah it's on the PC, but I'd rather spend money on a new console than just a Gfx card), Fable 2(whenever that comes out), and Shadow Run just to name a few. Oh and GTA IV, you know that little known game.

For some reason I want to buy a PS3, I know it doesn't have many games except for like Resistance and such. It looks promising, but still no games.
Finally, somebody else with a reasonable grasp on the future potential of the PS3. I don't want to start a debate, but the reason that the 360 wasn't getting bad press at this time in it's life, was not because it had great games, but because there wasn't a contender there challenging it.

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Post by cowsgoquack101 » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:35 pm

XPCportables wrote: Finally, somebody else with a reasonable grasp on the future potential of the PS3. I don't want to start a debate, but the reason that the 360 wasn't getting bad press at this time in it's life, was not because it had great games, but because there wasn't a contender there challenging it.
Exactly, the PS3 is very promising and all, but the software for it lacks more than Wii. I'd love to get all of them eventually, but my first console to buy this generation will definitely be a 360.

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