Are 3rd party Developers trying to Sabotage the Wiis Success

Includes PS2, Xbox 1, GameCube (but not the Phantom Game Console)

Moderator:Moderators

Jongamer
Senior Member
Posts:2151
Joined:Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:43 pm
PSN Username:Geekystig790
360 GamerTag:Mesu Gitsune
Location:Fairborn, Ohio

Post by Jongamer » Mon May 14, 2007 9:19 am

Unidentified Assilant wrote:Wii is far too underpowered to have any decent ports of Xbox360/PS3 games. Bad for Nintendo, and Wii is just a gimmicky piece of crap anyway.
You people all say gimmiky as if it were a bad thing.

How about Xbox live, and Acheivment points?

Or Ps3 sixaxis.

I know that the Nail that stick out gets hammered down but come on guys, Nintendo had F***ing balls to do what they did, Microsoft and Sony are throwing out the same old crap. (Not that I hate the same old crap, hell I like it but it gets boring year after year.)

User avatar
CronoTriggerfan
Moderator
Posts:4131
Joined:Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:07 pm
Location:University of Michigan - Ann Arbor
Contact:

Post by CronoTriggerfan » Mon May 14, 2007 9:26 am

bicostp wrote:No they aren't. Nintendo did that themselves.

It takes a considerable amount of effort to optimize games written for the PS3 and/or 360 to fit in the Wii's hardware limitations. It's like writing a brand new game for a brand new PC then having to make it run on a Pentium 1 running DOS.

Nintendo should have put more effort into improving the hardware. They should have used a little bit more powerful processor and a better GPU with high definition support. 1 That would decrease the amount of re-tooling necessary, which decreases production cost and time, which in turn looks good for the bean counters and executives. (It's all about money.) The only reason the Wii is seventh (eighth?) generation is time. Hardware-wise it's more comparable to the Xbox, PS2, and Gamecube. That's why you're basically getting first party franchises, minigames, and shovelware PS2 ports; the Wii can't handle games written for its competition.

Sorry if you don't like that statement, but that's my opinion.
I agree that Nintendo has brought this upon themselves, but I think they knew this would happen coming in; the crazy control scheme and underpowered hardware, by comparison, meant that a 1st party innovator would have to lead the way. Nintendo is still yet to release ANY games that could set an example for 3rd party developers to follow. As a huge Wii fan, I will say that there are some great gameplay experiences on the Wii, some of which do use the controls innovatively. Trauma Center, Sonic and the Secret Rings, WarioWare, heck, I'll even include Wii Sports; but none of these perfect the controls. The graphics don't make the gameplay experience on Wii, the controls do. And when we see a game that shows the world what the Wii can do, 3rd party developers will come, I guarantee it. Just like the DS, it had a slow coming of games at first, but people started to perfect the touch screen controls, and more and more games were produced for it.

CTFan
Image

User avatar
dman762000
Posts:449
Joined:Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:55 pm
Location:jonesboro ar

Post by dman762000 » Mon May 14, 2007 10:19 am

johnbjuice wrote:Since this thread has turned into the only real civil discussion of next-gen consoles I've seen, I just need to say this.

The XBox 360 or Wii is going to win. Either. I'm not sure which, but one of them, just not the PS3. Why? It's gonna sound wrong, dirty, stupid, and irrelevant, but it's true.


- Juice
I am not going to disagree with your assertations that it will be the xbox 360 or the wii that will "win" (even tho its not really a competition and there is no real qualification for what constitutes a win) what i will disagree with is why, BR or HDDVD, who really cares its going to be a long while before regular dvd goes away, the real reason ps3 will "loose" is the price, sony is just shooting themselves in the foot by over-pricing their console

Jongamer
Senior Member
Posts:2151
Joined:Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:43 pm
PSN Username:Geekystig790
360 GamerTag:Mesu Gitsune
Location:Fairborn, Ohio

Post by Jongamer » Mon May 14, 2007 11:25 am

dman762000 wrote:
johnbjuice wrote:Since this thread has turned into the only real civil discussion of next-gen consoles I've seen, I just need to say this.

The XBox 360 or Wii is going to win. Either. I'm not sure which, but one of them, just not the PS3. Why? It's gonna sound wrong, dirty, stupid, and irrelevant, but it's true.


- Juice
I am not going to disagree with your assertations that it will be the xbox 360 or the wii that will "win" (even tho its not really a competition and there is no real qualification for what constitutes a win) what i will disagree with is why, BR or HDDVD, who really cares its going to be a long while before regular dvd goes away, the real reason ps3 will "loose" is the price, sony is just shooting themselves in the foot by over-pricing their console
WEll Sony really can't help but make that console that expensive, but Sony was Freakin' stupid to Develope the PS3 and force them to charge $600 for it.

I pretty much say the PS3 will end up like the Sega Saturn, to hard to develope for, lack of good games, Expensive.

User avatar
hy phrend
Posts:80
Joined:Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:05 pm

Post by hy phrend » Mon May 14, 2007 3:23 pm

dman762000 wrote:the real reason ps3 will "loose" is the price, sony is just shooting themselves in the foot by over-pricing their console
Actually it costs Sony a considerable amount to make ps3's. even though its an expensive system, it's being sold for around 200 less then what they are making it for.

source: http://adultgamingenthusiasts.com/blogs ... a-360.aspx
DCP---Done

User avatar
jones
Compound Intelligence
Posts:738
Joined:Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:20 am
PSN Username:jarjarisgod
Contact:

Post by jones » Tue May 15, 2007 8:07 am

Jongamer wrote:
Unidentified Assilant wrote:Wii is far too underpowered to have any decent ports of Xbox360/PS3 games. Bad for Nintendo, and Wii is just a gimmicky piece of crap anyway.
You people all say gimmiky as if it were a bad thing.

How about Xbox live, and Acheivment points?

Or Ps3 sixaxis.

I know that the Nail that stick out gets hammered down but come on guys, Nintendo had F***ing balls to do what they did, Microsoft and Sony are throwing out the same old crap. (Not that I hate the same old crap, hell I like it but it gets boring year after year.)
How is Xbox Live a gimmick exactly?

On the point of achievement points being gimmicky. It's not an apples to apples comparison as MS did not base the design of their system around achievement points. They were merely something they added in as an extra and they turned out to be wildly popular beyond any hopes MS ever had for them.

And gimmicks can be a bad thing when they undermine the gaming experience. For me this is exactly what the Wii's controller does 9 times out of 10. For some of you that is not the case, which is great for you. But in my case it rendered the majority of the games I played virtually unplayable, or left me longing for a "standard" controller. It would have been nice if they gave people the option, but they chose not to. Now they need to deal with the criticism that decision has wrought.

A guy I work with just got a Wii and he is not impressed either. He made the same comment that they should have made it so that people could use more of a standard controller configuration if they wanted to. I wasn't aware of this, but he said that for most (if not all) of the VC games you need to buy the "classic" controller? This wouldn't be a bad thing in and of itself if you could use that controller on the regular Wii games, but you can't. Also, why can't a person use a Gamecube controller to play the VC games? That would seem pretty reasonable given all of those Gamecube controller ports the Wii has.

At least MS doesn't make you buy a new controller to play the Xbox Live Arcade games. No the regular controller works just fine thank you very much!

Sorry for the rant, but I needed to get that off my chest. :)

I also disagree that MS and Sony are throwing out the same crap. If you would like to hear more let me know and I'll fill you in. I just feel I have gotten rather longwinded in this particular post, so I will leave that for another time.

I look forward to hearing about how Xbox Live is a gimmick. :wink:

Aaron
Posts:49
Joined:Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:13 am

Post by Aaron » Tue May 15, 2007 10:16 am

bicostp likes t eh buttsecks!

Anyway, i agree with Unidentified Assilant!

COD3 and farcry on wii = WTF? Really bad games, low playability.

The only games good on the Wii are the mini games (super monkey ball, rayman raving rabbids)

@jones, most (if not all) VC games can be played using the gamecube controller.

The Wii sucks really, a controller for wii games, a controller for gamecube games AND a controller for VC games, non of which can be used for any other purpose (we had some classic controllers thinking we could use them to play some COD3 but then found out you can't use them in anything but VC :( )

360 FTW.

User avatar
Triton
Moderator
Posts:7397
Joined:Mon May 24, 2004 12:33 pm
360 GamerTag:triton199
Steam ID:triton199
Location:Iowa
Contact:

Post by Triton » Tue May 15, 2007 10:59 am

aaaand your post destroys whatever intelligent conversation was happening in this thread with its rampant fanboyism! the wiimote is in the same boat as the DS touchscreen was when the DS first came out, you have a ton of people thinking its stupid and gimicky etc and a year later its the best selling handheld on the planet. the wii has been out barely 6 months, give it some freaking time to get the actual good games coming out and for the devs to learn how to properly utilize the wiimote!

User avatar
jones
Compound Intelligence
Posts:738
Joined:Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:20 am
PSN Username:jarjarisgod
Contact:

Post by jones » Tue May 15, 2007 11:54 am

Aaron wrote:bicostp likes t eh buttsecks!

Anyway, i agree with Unidentified Assilant!

COD3 and farcry on wii = WTF? Really bad games, low playability.

The only games good on the Wii are the mini games (super monkey ball, rayman raving rabbids)

@jones, most (if not all) VC games can be played using the gamecube controller.

The Wii sucks really, a controller for wii games, a controller for gamecube games AND a controller for VC games, non of which can be used for any other purpose (we had some classic controllers thinking we could use them to play some COD3 but then found out you can't use them in anything but VC :( )

360 FTW.
Glad to hear you can use the Gamecube controller for the VC games. I'll have to let my friend know as he was under the impression it wouldn't work. Thanks for the tip.

@Triton - You are correct in that the DS was viewed in some circles as being gimmicky as well upon it's release. The difference being that developers aren't forced to use both screens on the DS. I've only played a DS once or twice, but I believe Ben said that on the latest Castlevania game you don't really use the second screen for much of anything. This may or may not be the case with the other games that are being released.

I'm sure there are some games that make effective use of both screens, but the point is they don't have to use it if it doesn't fit the game. With the Wii on the other hand developers (at least to this point) are forced to use the Wii Remote. They can't opt to not use it. Maybe this will change in the future, but for now this is not the case and to be generous the results have been mixed to this point.

As I have said in the podcast and in other posts, I will definitely give it another try in 6 months to a year when developers have had more time to work with it. At this point I remain skeptical. For comparison's sake, by this point in it's lifecycle the 360 had Oblivion and GRAW in it's post launch lineup. Those games were already demonstrating the power and potential of the system to great effect. The Wii has nothing comparable at this time. How much longer should we have to wait?

At the end of the day for the Wii to be successful, third party developers and Nintendo need to deliver quality games. People will only be content with the unique controls for so long. At some point they will demand the games be there as well and if they aren't there the system will start collecting dust.

Nintendo brought this on themselves with their heavy-handed tactics in the late 80's and early 90's with regards to third party developers. That's why the last Nintendo system to have more great third party games than first party was the SNES. Once the N64 and Playstation came out the developers bolted for Sony and Nintendo got left in the dust. Sure Goldeneye was a great third party game for the N64, but what else was there really. Were it not for Goldeneye I would have had no need to own an N64. And I never needed a Gamecube, but it was cheap so I figured why not. My wife played it for a couple of months and it has collected dust ever since.

It's sad really. I would love to buy what Nintendo is cookin', but they make nothing worth buying in my opinion. The real tragedy is that they have no one to blame but themselves for the situation they've been in for the last ten+ years.

User avatar
dudex77
Posts:1499
Joined:Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:43 am
Location:Spain
Contact:

Post by dudex77 » Tue May 15, 2007 12:19 pm

Nintendo's controllers always look weird or gimicky at the beginning (check out the n64 controller) but once youve really played with the thing its great! granted if you use it with a ported game its probably terrible but as long as you stick to games made for the wii its great.
Kurt_ wrote: I would use tact switches but I want the mushy feel. Mushy = God. (I typed that correctly).
Image

User avatar
Unidentified Assilant
Senior Member
Posts:2531
Joined:Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:26 pm
Location:Yea I like machine head

Post by Unidentified Assilant » Tue May 15, 2007 12:29 pm

I had a N64 for a long time, and couldn't at all get used to it lol. N64 really is unique. Not a bad console, but awful controllers.

Not many games are made for Wii either.

Wiisports, Wiiplay (both of them suck), Zelda, SMG, SSBB... a few others as well.
Image

Somebody please buy my Dreamcast >_> £20+shipping :)

User avatar
Triton
Moderator
Posts:7397
Joined:Mon May 24, 2004 12:33 pm
360 GamerTag:triton199
Steam ID:triton199
Location:Iowa
Contact:

Post by Triton » Tue May 15, 2007 12:58 pm

@jones your not 100% correct that they CANT use the classic or gamecube for wii games, DBZ budokai tenkaichi 2 for wii you have choice of wii or gamecube controllers, its not an amazing game but it is very fun and playable with either and especially with friends lol and SSB:B will be able to use gamecube or classic controllers as well if i am not mistaken

User avatar
jones
Compound Intelligence
Posts:738
Joined:Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:20 am
PSN Username:jarjarisgod
Contact:

Post by jones » Tue May 15, 2007 2:11 pm

dudex77 wrote:Nintendo's controllers always look weird or gimicky at the beginning (check out the n64 controller) but once youve really played with the thing its great! granted if you use it with a ported game its probably terrible but as long as you stick to games made for the wii its great.
I haven't really cared for a Nintendo controller since the SNES. The N64 controller was okay I guess, but nothing special. I never even used the left hand part of the controller! :lol:
Triton wrote:@jones your not 100% correct that they CANT use the classic or gamecube for wii games, DBZ budokai tenkaichi 2 for wii you have choice of wii or gamecube controllers, its not an amazing game but it is very fun and playable with either and especially with friends lol and SSB:B will be able to use gamecube or classic controllers as well if i am not mistaken
Well that's good news! I hope this trend continues. It only makes sense for Nintendo as they can cater to both those who enjoy the Wii Remote as well as those who prefer a more "traditional" gaming experience.

Everybody wins if this, in fact, becomes the standard and they start getting some great games out there. :)

User avatar
Rekarp
Portablizer Extraordinaire
Posts:2163
Joined:Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:52 am
PSN Username:Lnghrn_
Steam ID:rekarp
Location:Austin, Tx
Contact:

Post by Rekarp » Tue May 15, 2007 4:29 pm

jones wrote:Well that's good news! I hope this trend continues. It only makes sense for Nintendo as they can cater to both those who enjoy the Wii Remote as well as those who prefer a more "traditional" gaming experience.

Everybody wins if this, in fact, becomes the standard and they start getting some great games out there. :)
I can't agree more. As much as I like flailing my arms around I do long for the sweet curves of my SNES controller.

Anyways back to portablizing!
The wood master

Image

"I was under the impression Mac owners don't actually USE their machines, they just parade them around trying to evangelize the masses."

User avatar
HotDog-Cart
Portablizer
Posts:3804
Joined:Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:07 pm
PSN Username:Lythinca
Steam ID:scythe_king
Location:Your IP Address, Connecting...
Contact:

Post by HotDog-Cart » Tue May 15, 2007 4:45 pm

False.
Image

Post Reply