A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Includes but not limited to: SNES, Genesis, Sega CD, PlayStation 1, Nintendo 64, Dreamcast, Game Gear and I guess the Virtual Boy.

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Random_Hajile1980
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Retron 3 CIC

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:21 pm

Now, for the lockout chip, I've got a bit of information which will simplify the task of figuring out what goes where on the lockout chip. I had a look at the solder spot inside my FC16 Go Version 2's motherboard and found several floating pins, namely pins 5, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15. Pin 4 is also tied to VCC to make the lockout chip work as the lock.

Pin 16 is also tied to VCC, which powers the chip, and pin 8 is Ground. So that leaves us with figuring out where pins 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 9 and 10 go.
Thanks Ace, You may be interested in this, I was poking around inside the dead FC twin and these seem to be some of the the missing pin assignments:

Updated to correct mistakes in labeling, all pins seem to be accounted for now it's just testing the mod (4/10)

1 = Cartridge slot pin 55
2 = Cartridge slot pin 24
3 = Connects to a 2.2uf 50v capacitor on the negative side and the other side of the cap connects to 5v and pin 16
4 = connects to 5v to put in lock mode
5= disconnected
6 = Cartridge slot pin 56
7 = Reset button line
8 = Gnd
9 = pin 18 on fc twin's 6976 {if it is the same as a real SNES this is reset to the processors, perhaps there is another way to tap into this}
10 = Cartridge slot pin 25
11 - 15 = disconnected
16 = 5v


traces are connected to pins 24,25,55,56 I wonder if we will need to disconnect them?

On further testing, (just an excuse to play LOL) I have played through CV III and got to Dracula's third form and noticed no graphical errors, I haven't tried After Burner but I'd imagine that still won't work properly, and I don't have rad racer 2 to test.

I stumbled across your posts on sega-16 about the retron 3, I went ahead and performed the SNES composite brightness and genesis green fixes you mention. I'm also considering doing the genesis PSG/FM balance fix as well, was it 30k ohm resistors you used or was it 33k? I am having issues reading the labels on the photo.
Speaking of Genesis, I got some new games to test, and the only oddity I ran across was on Spiderman by Acclaim, It won't start unless you press reset and through a game genie nothing will make it start which I found weird.
Last edited by Random_Hajile1980 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Ace_1
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:09 pm

Re: Retron 3 CIC

Post by Ace_1 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:23 am

Random_Hajile1980 wrote:I stumbled across your posts on sega-16 about the retron 3, I went ahead and performed the SNES composite brightness and genesis green fixes you mention. I'm also considering doing the genesis PSG/FM balance fix as well, was it 30k ohm resistors you used or was it 33k?
I suggest you ignore the PSG/FM volume balance fix as I'm working on a universal audio amp for GOAC-based Geniclones and any real Sega Genesis with a GOAC (there is a Model 2 with a GOAC and all Genesis 3s have GOACs as well). This will give much louder and cleaner sound than the on-board mixer the RetroN3 uses.

What I also suggest you do is to remove some resistors on the NES audio outputs and replace those by a dual op-amp (TL072) wired up as a voltage follower to fix Stereo separation on the Genesis and Super NES sides. Since I don't remember what the RetroN3 Version 3's NES board looks like off-hand, I will be taking a look inside my RetroN3 Version 3 in the coming days and take a picture of the NES board to show you the resistors in question.

Random_Hajile1980
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Retron 3 amp

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:03 am

I suggest you ignore the PSG/FM volume balance fix as I'm working on a universal audio amp for GOAC-based Geniclones and any real Sega Genesis with a GOAC (there is a Model 2 with a GOAC and all Genesis 3s have GOACs as well). This will give much louder and cleaner sound than the on-board mixer the RetroN3 uses.

What I also suggest you do is to remove some resistors on the NES audio outputs and replace those by a dual op-amp (TL072) wired up as a voltage follower to fix Stereo separation on the Genesis and Super NES sides. Since I don't remember what the RetroN3 Version 3's NES board looks like off-hand, I will be taking a look inside my RetroN3 Version 3 in the coming days and take a picture of the NES board to show you the resistors in question.
Ok then, do you have an idea when the circuit design will be ready? I would imagine adapting and modifying a circuit like this might be rather complex and time consuming, I also would guess that this fixes the reversed stereo channels as well. Do you have the solder points for the amp?

I know which resistors you mean for the NES, they are still in essentially the same place as they were in other revisions, and I found them using a multimeter. Also I have an dual op amp It's a 2904D in my parts box, can I use it or do I specifically need TL072?

Ace_1
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:09 pm

Re: Retron 3 amp

Post by Ace_1 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:14 am

Random_Hajile1980 wrote:Ok then, do you have an idea when the circuit design will be ready? I would imagine adapting and modifying a circuit like this might be rather complex and time consuming, I also would guess that this fixes the reversed stereo channels as well. Do you have the solder points for the amp?
I have a prototype version of the circuit ready, but I find its audio output to be a little too low, so I will tweak it over the weekend to get the volume levels of the YM3438 and SN76489 properly balanced and get the overall volume level as loud as a Genesis Model 2. I will also get the solder points for you.

As for the reversed Stereo, you will have to wire up the audio output from the amp correctly, otherwise you will end up with reversed Stereo again. I'll indicate the proper points for the audio outputs so you don't reverse anything.
Random_Hajile1980 wrote:I know which resistors you mean for the NES, they are still in essentially the same place as they were in other revisions, and I found them using a multimeter. Also I have an dual op amp It's a 2904D in my parts box, can I use it or do I specifically need TL072?
It seems to have a unity gain bandwidth of just 600KHz. That's probably pushing it with the NES side. You should use the TL072 as that's the only op-amp I've had good results with (I originally used an LM358 to make an audio amp for my Top-Loader NES which ended up inducing very heavy noise, so I now use the TL072 for everything I make).

And if you're wondering how to wire up the op-amp, you have to do the following:

-Audio output to pins 3 and 5 of the op-amp
-Pin 8 to VCC on the NES board (it must not be the common VCC that goes to the power switch)
-Pin 4 to Ground
-Pin 1 linked to pin 2, pin 6 linked to pin 7

Take your audio outputs from the linked pins. This will prevent any crosstalk on the Genesis and Super NES sides' audio output.

Random_Hajile1980
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:11 am

I have a prototype version of the circuit ready, but I find its audio output to be a little too low, so I will tweak it over the weekend to get the volume levels of the YM3438 and SN76489 properly balanced and get the overall volume level as loud as a Genesis Model 2. I will also get the solder points for you.

As for the reversed Stereo, you will have to wire up the audio output from the amp correctly, otherwise you will end up with reversed Stereo again. I'll indicate the proper points for the audio outputs so you don't reverse anything.
Ok so I will check that out when you are done, i have to order some more parts soon for some projects so I will just delay it a bit so I can add the parts for the amp.
It seems to have a unity gain bandwidth of just 600KHz. That's probably pushing it with the NES side. You should use the TL072 as that's the only op-amp I've had good results with (I originally used an LM358 to make an audio amp for my Top-Loader NES which ended up inducing very heavy noise, so I now use the TL072 for everything I make).

And if you're wondering how to wire up the op-amp, you have to do the following:

-Audio output to pins 3 and 5 of the op-amp
-Pin 8 to VCC on the NES board (it must not be the common VCC that goes to the power switch)
-Pin 4 to Ground
-Pin 1 linked to pin 2, pin 6 linked to pin 7

Take your audio outputs from the linked pins. This will prevent any crosstalk on the Genesis and Super NES sides' audio output.
Oh well, I was hoping to use it because it has just been sitting around the parts box for a few years, I can find some other use in the future then, I will pick up a TL072 in my next parts buy.

do you suggest any other changes to the system? or should I do the audio fixes, and maybe the lockout and call it done?

UPDATE: I received the resistors late yesterday and installed them, I was only able to source 1206 sized ones, and although a bit big for this application worked just fine with a little careful installation. I am happy to report that Ace, you were quite right and 33k resistors made the audio sound so much better than the puny stock ones. It completely fixed my distortion including the Super Gameboy. From the tests I've done I think this is sufficient for my needs on the SNES side. I still have not received the power switches yet, so no update on that.

Random_Hajile1980
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:29 am

Ok, Typically I will not double post, however since there is so much new information to share on this project, I wanted to call attention to it.

I got the replacement power switches in today, it took a while to get here because the seller lives in HK but I can say these are VERY high quality switches and I was able to replace the broken stock one with little effort.
They are slightly smaller than the original part, measuring only 7mm x 7mm when the original was 8mm x 8mm but the pins are compatible.
They came in a pack of 10 so I have spares.

Image

they are available at amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0079G1DX6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, I have been tracing the pins on the retrons's SNES side to see how to hook up the lockout chip and there are indeed traces connecting to the pins that on a real SNES connect to the cic pins. I have not traced them back to their source but it appears they connect to the main chipset.

However, I made an accidental discovery tonight. I am still unsure how to reliably replicate it but I was able to get my copy of Kirby Superstar to run

Image

It is a copy that will NOT typically boot on systems without a working lockout chip, here is what I did:
insert cartridge and turn system on for a few moments, press and hold Reset, turn off power, turn on power again and release reset.
This does not work 100% of the time though, it only works sometimes like it's part dumb luck, but it has worked many times for me since my initial discovery. If someone else can try this on a locked-out SA-1 title let me know if you can get it working.

Also I was able to improve the range on the pack in wireless controllers, here is how:
open the console and carefully bend the IR receiver forward so it will touch the window when the top is put back in place, then after reassembling the system disassemble the controllers, bend the LED emitters so that they extend out of the casing the two on the front are easy, the one on the back needs to have the hole slightly enlarged to allow the emitter to fit in further.
The emitters should look like domes when the controller is reassembled. you can use some hot glue to hold them in place so if the controller is dropped the emitters do not get pushed back in.
This improves the range and usable angle of the controllers, and as long as the SNES controllers are unplugged (so they won't block the window) they work pretty well, however you still can't mash buttons quickly :)

Ace_1
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:09 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Ace_1 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:33 pm

Random_Hajile1980 wrote:Ok, Typically I will not double post, however since there is so much new information to share on this project, I wanted to call attention to it.

I got the replacement power switches in today, it took a while to get here because the seller lives in HK but I can say these are VERY high quality switches and I was able to replace the broken stock one with little effort.
They are slightly smaller than the original part, measuring only 7mm x 7mm when the original was 8mm x 8mm but the pins are compatible.
They came in a pack of 10 so I have spares.
Nice to see you got that fixed up.
Random_Hajile1980 wrote:Also, I have been tracing the pins on the retrons's SNES side to see how to hook up the lockout chip and there are indeed traces connecting to the pins that on a real SNES connect to the cic pins. I have not traced them back to their source but it appears they connect to the main chipset.
:?:

What for? It's not as if there's a clone of the lockout chip in the TCT-970 chipset, so what's the deal with this?
Random_Hajile1980 wrote:However, I made an accidental discovery tonight. I am still unsure how to reliably replicate it but I was able to get my copy of Kirby Superstar to run

*snip*

It is a copy that will NOT typically boot on systems without a working lockout chip, here is what I did:
insert cartridge and turn system on for a few moments, press and hold Reset, turn off power, turn on power again and release reset.
This does not work 100% of the time though, it only works sometimes like it's part dumb luck, but it has worked many times for me since my initial discovery. If someone else can try this on a locked-out SA-1 title let me know if you can get it working.
That is dumb luck, much like I've experienced with a Japanese copy of Super Mario RPG with a lockout chip check. On the FC Twin, if you turn on the NES side for half a second, then switch back to the Super NES side, the game will boot (this works on the Version 2 and Version 4A, at least), on the RetroDuo v2.0 and v3.0, the game works if you turn on the NES side for about 5 seconds then switch to the Super NES side, and I discovered that on an FC3 Plus Version 2, if you leave the Genesis side on for about 10 seconds or so (haven't timed it) then switch over to the Super NES side, Super Mario RPG will work. I have yet to wrap my head around this, but some Super Famiclones appear to have their own little tricks to getting SA-1 games with lockout chip checks working. Of course, some simply will not work with those games without adding a lockout chip, one of which is the FC16 Go. I'm gonna add one into mine once I get all the capture footage I need for FC16 Go V2 vs. Original Hardware on YouTube (I currently only recorded Super Famicom games; I still need to record Super NES games and GameBoy games running through the Super GameBoy).
Random_Hajile1980 wrote:Also I was able to improve the range on the pack in wireless controllers, here is how:
open the console and carefully bend the IR receiver forward so it will touch the window when the top is put back in place, then after reassembling the system disassemble the controllers, bend the LED emitters so that they extend out of the casing the two on the front are easy, the one on the back needs to have the hole slightly enlarged to allow the emitter to fit in further.
The emitters should look like domes when the controller is reassembled. you can use some hot glue to hold them in place so if the controller is dropped the emitters do not get pushed back in.
This improves the range and usable angle of the controllers, and as long as the SNES controllers are unplugged (so they won't block the window)
This is gonna be very useful for me. My RetroN3 Version 3 is placed in a really bad spot for me to be able to use the infrared controllers comfortably and I really do not want to load the thing with 6 controllers. That's gonna make a friggin' mess around the thing.
Random_Hajile1980 wrote:however you still can't mash buttons quickly :)
Go figure. I think either the receiver isn't receiving data fast enough, or the emitting LEDs on the controllers emit the infrared in pulses that are too long. Is there a crystal in the controllers?

Random_Hajile1980
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:06 am

What for? It's not as if there's a clone of the lockout chip in the TCT-970 chipset, so what's the deal with this?
I'm not sure why this is either, mainly because these four pins should NOT have any connection at all, they are simply input/output data lines on the CIC chip, and without a CIC in the system they should be unused. As you said there isn't some clone lockout chip. although I do have a guess what is happening.
That is dumb luck, much like I've experienced with a Japanese copy of Super Mario RPG with a lockout chip check. On the FC Twin, if you turn on the NES side for half a second, then switch back to the Super NES side, the game will boot (this works on the Version 2 and Version 4A, at least), on the RetroDuo v2.0 and v3.0, the game works if you turn on the NES side for about 5 seconds then switch to the Super NES side, and I discovered that on an FC3 Plus Version 2, if you leave the Genesis side on for about 10 seconds or so (haven't timed it) then switch over to the Super NES side, Super Mario RPG will work. I have yet to wrap my head around this, but some Super Famiclones appear to have their own little tricks to getting SA-1 games with lockout chip checks working. Of course, some simply will not work with those games without adding a lockout chip, one of which is the FC16 Go. I'm gonna add one into mine once I get all the capture footage I need for FC16 Go V2 vs. Original Hardware on YouTube (I currently only recorded Super Famicom games; I still need to record Super NES games and GameBoy games running through the Super GameBoy).
My idea as to why these tricks work is that it's the same thing that made some unlicensed NES games run: Voltage spikes
I think that if the conditions are right the consoles send just enough power to knock the lockout check offline.
Of course I could be wrong but after working with so many electronics over the years it makes sense, especially in the case of the Retron3 with the connections to the cart slot that should not be there.
This is gonna be very useful for me. My RetroN3 Version 3 is placed in a really bad spot for me to be able to use the infrared controllers comfortably and I really do not want to load the thing with 6 controllers. That's gonna make a friggin' mess around the thing.
I hope the controller mod helps you, and others as well. after reading so many negative reviews on the controllers and the dismal performance of my own controllers I had to see if I could get them to work in a usable way. I find that this mod makes them serviceable, but they won't win any "test your might" competitions :D
I didn't see any oscillator crystal in the controllers, just a glop top and a resistor and capacitor, seems rather spartan inside.

On a side note I hear that Hyperkin is planning a Retron4, with nicer bluetooth controllers and while on paper it sounds neat something to me screams Atgames software emulation. The details are still rather light though. I just can't see them using SOACs the way they describe it working and there is the fact that it has GBA compatibility, and that system's patents have NOT expired.

Ace_1
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:09 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Ace_1 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:05 pm

Random_Hajile1980 wrote:I didn't see any oscillator crystal in the controllers, just a glop top and a resistor and capacitor, seems rather spartan inside.
Must have an internal oscillator in the glop top, then. If that's the case, we can't fix anything.
Random_Hajile1980 wrote:On a side note I hear that Hyperkin is planning a Retron4, with nicer bluetooth controllers and while on paper it sounds neat something to me screams Atgames software emulation. The details are still rather light though. I just can't see them using SOACs the way they describe it working and there is the fact that it has GBA compatibility, and that system's patents have NOT expired.
Unless they somehow manage to get all 4 sides working with reverse-engineered hardware running through some kind of ADC setup for the HDMI output, I don't see how the RetroN4 can have all those features and not use software emulation. I'm especially suspicious of the GameBoy Advance compatibility due to the fact it hasn't been 20 years since the system was released. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo puts a halt to the RetroN4 because of the GameBoy Advance compatibility.

Random_Hajile1980
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:00 am

I have been hard at work trying to figure out how to connect the lockout chip to the Retron3, and I have verified that the FC Twin has pins 3,7, and 10 disconnected so those must not be needed for function, so I believe we have our pinout traced.

I am however very concerned about disconnecting the 4 CIC pins at the cartridge slot.
I am still as of yet, not 100% sure of what they are there for and there is no coming back from cut traces, I don't think they do anything but I need to be sure.
Therefore, I am trying to devise a way to test disconnecting the pins without cutting the traces, I may try to cover a cart's pins with tape or maybe get a cheapo sports title and cut the pins on that to see what effects there are while a cartridge is running.
If anyone has ideas on this I am listening.

I also got a nice lot of 15 cartridges to test out on the system.
I am getting ready to compile my own compatibility list for the system.
which consists of over 120 titles, I just don't know where I should post it.
One of the games I received was Ecco Tides of Time, and I am happy to report that it does run just fine on the Retron3 but it behaves just like Acclaim Spiderman, and requires a reset before it will start. also of note this game also will not function with a game genie.

Ace_1
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:09 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Ace_1 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:23 pm

Covering the lockout chip pins on the card-edge of a crappy game should be the way to go about doing this without it being too much of a hassle.

Unless that chip contains an inactive lockout chip clone of sorts? I wonder about this as the RetroDuo Portable is able to play copies of Super Mario RPG with a lockout chip check first shot. Either it's dumb luck or there's something going on inside that TCT-970 chipset we don't know about. It may be something worth checking with a logic probe or oscilloscope.
Random_Hajile1980 wrote:I also got a nice lot of 15 cartridges to test out on the system.
I am getting ready to compile my own compatibility list for the system.
which consists of over 120 titles, I just don't know where I should post it.
When you do this, I'll make a full written review of the RetroN3 Version 3 like I've done with the RetroN2 on DigitPress and with the RetroGen Adapter and RetroN3 Version 1 on Sega-16. I will also compare the system to original hardware in RetroN3 V3 vs. Original Hardware once I'm done comparing the RetroGen Adapter, RetroN2 and FC3 Plus Version 1 and Version 2.

Random_Hajile1980
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:59 am

I am going to try the "tape over the pins" method to test for proper system function and see what I get. I am beginning to wonder if there is some sore of lockout override onboard the TC-97x chipset , after you mentioned the RDP I started thinking that may be why it is possible to get those games running on that system. I am considering getting one to crack open and see what is hooked to the pins on the slot that would go to the CIC chip, perhaps there is something on retro duo portable 2 that is wired slightly different that enables the games to run, and if that is the case maybe adding a cic chip is redundant.
I would love to see if the CIC pins go to the same place as the Retron3's chipset.
When you do this, I'll make a full written review of the RetroN3 Version 3 like I've done with the RetroN2 on DigitPress and with the RetroGen Adapter and RetroN3 Version 1 on Sega-16. I will also compare the system to original hardware in RetroN3 V3 vs. Original Hardware once I'm done comparing the RetroGen Adapter, RetroN2 and FC3 Plus Version 1 and Version 2.
NEW EDIT 4/05: I received several new titles, as well as my Super Everdrive, still waiting on my MD Everdrive and a Famicom Disk System (is there a way to wire in expansion audio?) once they get here I will do a new post detailing compatibility with those devices perhaps photos or youtube videos as well.

Updated Compatibility on 9/22/14
Game Compatibility is as follows

Genesis:

6 Pak - compatible
Aladdin - compatible
Batman Returns - compatible
Beavis and Butthead - compatible
Bonanza Bros - compatible
Bram Stoker's Dracula - compatible
Castlevania Bloodlines - compatible
Comix Zone - compatible
Cool Spot - compatible
Chakan The Forever Man - compatible
Desert Demolition starring Wile E Coyote And Roadrunner - compatible
Desert Strike Return to the Gulf - compatible
Dynamite Headdy - compatible
Earthworm Jim 2 - compatible
Ecco the Dolphin - compatible
Ecco The Tides of Time - compatible*
Eswat city under siege - compatible
Eternal Champions - compatible
Evander Holyfield's Real Deal Boxing - compatible
Flashback The Quest for Identity - compatible
Garfield Caught In the Act -compatible
Greendog Beached Surfer Dude - compatible
Jungle Strike - compatible
Jurassic Park - compatible
Jurassic Park Rampage Edition - compatible
Kid Chameleon - compatible
Mick & Mack Global Gladiators - compatible
Mystic Defender - compatible
NHL '94 - compatible
Outlander - compatible
Pacman 2 The new adventures - compatible
Phantasy Star 2 - compatible
Quackshot starring Donald Duck - compatible
Ren And Stimpy, Stimpy's Invention - compatible
Rings Of Power - compatible
Road Rash - compatible
Rocket Knight Adventures - compatible
Shinobi III Return of The Ninja Master - compatible
Shadow Dancer The Secret of Shinobi - compatible
Sonic the Hedgehog - compatible
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - compatible
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 - compatible
Sonic & Knuckles - compatible
Sonic the Hedgehog + Sonic & Knuckles - compatible
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 + Sonic & Knuckles - compatible
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 + Sonic & Knuckles - compatible
Sonic 3d Blast - compatible
Sonic Spinball - compatible
Spiderman the Animated Series (acclaim) - compatible*
Spiderman & Venom Separation Anxiety - compatible
Spiderman vs. Kingpin - compatible
Street Fighter 2 Special Champion edition - compatible
Streets of Rage 2 - compatible
Streets of Rage 3 - compatible
Super Monaco GP - compatible
Super Street Fighter 2 The New Challengers - compatible
ToeJam & Earl - compatible
Thunder Force II - compatible
TMNT The Hyperstone Heist - compatible
TMNT Tournament Fighters - compatible
Urban Stirke - compatible
Vectorman - compatible
Vectorman 2 - compatible
Virtua Racing - Compatible, with a pair of jumper mods
Warsong - compatible
World Of Illusion Starring Mickey & Donald - compatible
Xmen - compatible

*note: black screen at boot, must push reset to start game, these titles will not work at all if attached to Game Genie.

Mega Drive Japan:
Bad Omen - compatible
Fantasia - compatible
Marvel Land - compatible

Master System:
Games tested on official Power Base Converter

After Burner - compatible^
Alex Kidd in Miracle World - compatible
Aztec Adventure - compatible
Choplifter - compatible
Ghost House sega card - compatible
Great Football - compatible
Hang On/Astro Warrior - compatible
Hang on/Safari Hunt - compatible
Master of Darkness - compatible
Outrun - compatible
Shinobi - compatible#
Spellcaster - compatible

^note: Black screen at boot, must power cycle system to start game.
#note: game plays without sound Press reset to get sound back/

Super Nintendo:

Addams Family - compatible
Batman Forever - compatible
Beavis and Butthead - compatible
Castlevania 4 - compatible
Clayfighter - compatible
Clayfighter 2 Judgment Clay - compatible
Clue - compatible
Donkey Kong Country - compatible
Donkey Kong Country 2 - compatible
Doom - compatible
Earthbound - compatible {use a Sega Genesis power supply, or it may trip antipiracy detection}
Jurassic Park - compatible
Jurassic Park II The Chaos Continues - compatible
Killer Instinct - compatible
Kirby Superstar - not compatible
Lion King - compatible
Megaman X - compatible
Monopoly - compatible
NBA Live 96 - compatible
Spiderman & Venom Maximum Carnage - compatible
Spiderman/Xmen Arcade's Revenge - compatible
Starfox - compatible
Super Ghouls And Ghosts - not compatible, Stage 3 boss invisible, stage 4 is black screen
Super Metroid - compatible
Super Mario All Stars + Super Mario World - compatible
Super Mario Kart - compatible

Super Famicom:

Ranma 1/2 Hard Battle - compatible
Sky Mission - Compatible

Nintendo Entertainment System:

8 Eyes - compatible
Adventure Island - compatible
Adventures of Bayou Billy - compatible
Adventures in The Magic Kingdom - compatible
After Burner - compatible with major graphical errors
Athletic World - compatible
Bad Street Brawler - compatible
Bart vs the Space Mutants - compatible
Battletoads - crashes during level 2
Batman - compatible
Bible Adventures - compatible
Castlevania - compatible
Castlevania 2 Simon's Quest - compatible
Castlevania III Dracula's Curse - compatible*
Chiller - compatible
Chip and Dale's Rescue Ranger's - compatible
Dr Mario - Compatible
Dragon Warrior - compatible
Dick Tracy - compatible
Fester's Quest - compatible
Friday the 13th - compatible
Gauntlet II - compatible
Gyromite - compatible
Ice Hockey - compatible
Jeopardy 25th Anniversary - compatible
Karnov - compatible
Legend of Zelda - compatible
Legend of Zelda II Adventure of Link - compatible
Maniac Mansion - compatible
MC Kids - compatible
Megaman 3 - compatible
Megaman 4 - compatible
Mike Tyson's Punch Out - compatible
Milon's Secret Castle - compatible
Monster Party - compatible
Ninja Gaiden 2 - compatible
Paperboy - not compatible, controllers do not register inputs
Pinball - compatible
Rad Racer - compatible
Rolling Thunder - compatible
StarTropics - compatible
Super Mario Bros - compatible
Super Mario Bros 2 - compatible
Super Mario Bros 3 - compatible
Supervision 350-in-1 - compatible
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - compatible
Tetris Nintendo - compatible
Top Gun - compatible
Wheel of Fortune Family Edition - compatible
Wrecking Crew - compatible
Yo Noid - compatible

*note: modification required

Famicom:

4-in-1 bootleg Bubble bobble/Galaga/Excitebike/Goonies - compatible
76-in-1 bootleg - compatible
Battle City - compatible
Fist of the North Star - compatible
Metal Gear - compatible
Mortal Kombat bootleg - compatible
Robocop - compatible


Accessories:

Famicom Disk System - compatible
Super Everdrive - compatible
Everdrive MD - compatible
60-72 pin Famicom adaptor - compatible
Game Genie All Systems - compatible
Genesis Power Base Converter - compatible
NES Power Pad - compatible
NES Zapper - compatible
SNES Game Doctor SF7 64M - compatible
SNES Super Gameboy - compatible
SNES mouse - compatible
Last edited by Random_Hajile1980 on Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:56 pm, edited 10 times in total.

Random_Hajile1980
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Retron 3 compatibility continued.....

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:56 am

Having received my accessories, I have decided to put up a mini review of them here as well as compatibility notes.

I also want to apologize in advance for my messy game station, I was just given the monster 36" CRT tv and have not yet picked up the wooden cabinet that goes with it...

anyway, on to the tests!

First off there is the Famicom Disk System, I bought this one refurbished from tototek to be sure it was in working order.
using a official Nintendo Gyromite adapter I connected the system up:

Image

after testing it with four games and playing each one for several hours I am confident saying that the Famicom Disk System is totally compatible with the Retron 3 here is a shot of Super Mario Bros 2

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I can say that playing this system on the Retron 3 is reasonably accurate, so if you want to pick one up they do work well together.
I wish there was a mod to get the expansion audio working for some of my games but other than that, I love this thing, I have wanted one for years.

Next up is the Super Everdrive, and I am very happy to report that it works 100% with the Retron 3 every game I tried loaded, played, and saved just fine. and most games even operate fine with a game genie cartridge which is surprising, so if you wanna cheat that works too

Image

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and I have been playing Earthbound and Final Fantasy VI (translated) on it for countless hours without any sort of crashing or errors of any kind even the reset to everdrive menu and auto-save options sram function as they should. I have tried doing many things to stress test this flash cart on the system and there are no issues I can find with using the two together.

I also received the Everdrive MD today and after some testing I can say That I am impressed.

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Even without turning on "Genny 3" mode, everything I have tried works, even Sega Master system games which is surprising, as I heard that it shouldn't work at all but it does, see here

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Of course 32X capability cannot be used due to the fact that you need to plug an actual 32X in, and the Retron does not support it.
Anyway, after playing through a few Sega Master System games, And several Genesis titles as well I can report that the Everdrive MD works in the Retron 3 V3 as well. so after testing all these unusual and RAD accessories I have to admit I'm very impressed with the Retron 3 V3, even though I had to do some mods and repairs to get it just right (which I love doing anyway cuz I'm a modder at heart) I will be enjoying sitting and playing my new Everdrive cartridges and the Disk System on my Retron 3.

So there you are, If you have been on the fence wondering if you can get Everdrives to work on the Retron 3 (at least on the V3), now you have no reason to doubt that it can be done. I hope this helps someone who wants to tinker with these carts and the Retron 3 together. I may at some point shoot some Youtube videos to demonstrate it in motion, but for now the pics speak for themselves.

I am also going to continue updating my master compatibility list in the post above when I pick up new games so it should be kept current.
Last edited by Random_Hajile1980 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ace_1
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:09 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Ace_1 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:55 am

That is really nice. Man, I'm gonna have to pick up some more flash cartridges and a standalone Disk System so I can test them out on clone systems. I only have the PowerPak, which has yet to work on any NOAC I've tried to use it on, legal or not.

One thing I should point out is that there's a possibility the later Mega EverDrive fails to work on the RetroN3 (all versions) as SatoshiMatrix1 let me know his Mega EverDrive fails to work on the RetroGen Adapter, which shares the same TCT-6801 GOAC as the RetroN3. He says the cartridge fails to read the SD card.

What I want to see working on these clones is the SD2SNES. It's insanely expensive as it can do much more than any other Super NES flash cartridge, but if it works on a Super Famiclone (and I've seen it working on some), that's a HUGE plus.

As for expansion audio, I haven't messed with this just yet, but it should just be a matter of soldering a resistor between the cartridge slot and the NOAC's audio output (or a wire if the audio levels are correct). I will take a look at this after I finish wiring up an AY-3-8910A to an FPGA development board I bought so I can put together an MSX2+ clone.

Random_Hajile1980
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Everdrives and Reton 3

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:24 pm

I only have the PowerPak, which has yet to work on any NOAC I've tried to use it on, legal or not.
I believe this is because the developer of the powerpak carts dislikes clones and has no interest in working out compatibility with them.
I wasn't too impressed with those to be honest, I didn't like the clunky save issues with the SNES powerpak or the slightly outdated and easily damaged Compactflash card interfaces either, I'm not saying I don't think it's a neat card but those issues, coupled with the fact that my only real NES and SNES are dead and as of yet unrepairable kept me from buying.

Krikzz, being from Ukraine, where clones were easier to get than original hardware, is familiar with them (like the Dendy) so that means he is more likely going to attempt to make the cards compatible with everything, which really is good news for everybody, because if it works with knockoffs it's got to be more reliable.
One thing I should point out is that there's a possibility the later Mega EverDrive fails to work on the RetroN3 (all versions) as SatoshiMatrix1 let me know his Mega EverDrive fails to work on the RetroGen Adapter, which shares the same TCT-6801 GOAC as the RetroN3. He says the cartridge fails to read the SD card.
I heard this too and that's why I opted not to buy this cartridge, but the possibility does exist that since there is still active development going on it may work after a future upgrade of firmware or OS. I didn't need the extra features on this one but if it works in the future I could see picking one up.
What I want to see working on these clones is the SD2SNES. It's insanely expensive as it can do much more than any other Super NES flash cartridge, but if it works on a Super Famiclone (and I've seen it working on some), that's a HUGE plus.
I'm convinced that the SD2SNES should work as well, unless of course there is not enough voltage to the slot or the timing is wrong. and actually I intended to get that one instead of the Super Everdrive, but the wait time on purchase was just too long for me at present, also I decided to wait and see if SA-1 or SuperFX gets implemented. I will probably wait until this time next year and buy one then.
I also should point out that I have been using a Genesis model 1 AC adapter with the Retron 3 because I have found using the stock Power Supply to trigger Earthbound's Piracy protection, so that may cause loading issues with flashcarts too if someone is still using the stock wall wart.
As for expansion audio, I haven't messed with this just yet, but it should just be a matter of soldering a resistor between the cartridge slot and the NOAC's audio output (or a wire if the audio levels are correct). I will take a look at this after I finish wiring up an AY-3-8910A to an FPGA development board I bought so I can put together an MSX2+ clone.
I'm willing to be a guinea pig here and experiment with this, I just need to know which point to attach it to.

EDIT: never mind, I looked at my Retron 3 NES board and connected an unused pin to the audio jack with a jumper wire then modded my famicom converter to match, I put a 1k ohm resistor and 1uf cap in the converter instead of the console. It works perfectly.

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