A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Includes but not limited to: SNES, Genesis, Sega CD, PlayStation 1, Nintendo 64, Dreamcast, Game Gear and I guess the Virtual Boy.

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Ace_1
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Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Ace_1 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:46 pm

How are the volume levels? If I can get an audio sample I will be able to tell you if you got the volume levels right or not (if you can use Falsion or The Legend of Zelda on Disk System, that would be ideal for me).

At the same time, I'll throw in my RetroN3 Version 3 compatibility list to add on to yours (duplicates included, games compatible after modding excluded):

NES:

1943: compatible
After Burner: semi-compatible (plays with missing backgrounds)
Air Fortress: compatible
Al Unser Jr. Turbo Racing: compatible
Arkanoid: compatible
Blaster Master: compatible
Captain Skyhawk: compatible
Castlevania: compatible
Castlevania II: compatible
Castlevania III: INCOMPATIBLE (works with numerous graphical errors until past the name entry where the game locks up)
Contra: compatible
Duck Hunt: compatible
Excitebike: compatible
Flight of the Intruder: compatible
Formula 1 Built to Win: compatible
Galaxy 5000: compatible
G.I. Joe: compatible
Gradius: compatible
Gumshoe: compatible
Gun.Smoke: compatible
Gyruss: compatible
Hogan's Alley: compatible
Image Fight: compatible
Jackal: compatible
Kung Fu: compatible
Life Force: compatible
MegaMan: compatible
MegaMan 2: compatible
MegaMan 3: compatible
MegaMan 4: compatible
MegaMan 5: compatible
MegaMan 6: compatible
Metal Gear: compatible
Ninja Crusaders: compatible
Ninja Gaiden: compatible
Mike Tyson's PUNCH-OUT!!: compatible
Rad Racer: compatible
Rad Racer II: semi-compatible (works with severe graphical errors)
Section Z: compatible
Side Pocket: compatible
Sky Shark: compatible
Snake's Revenge: compatible
Spy Hunter: compatible
Stealth ATF: compatible
Super C: compatible
Super Mario Bros.: compatible
Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt: compatible
Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt/World Class Track Meet: compatible
Super Mario Bros. 2: compatible
Super Mario Bros. 3: compatible
Super Sprint: compatible
Tetris (Nintendo version): compatible
Tetris (Tengen version): compatible
Tetris 2: compatible
The Hunt for Red October: compatible
The Legend of Zelda: compatible
Thunderbirds: compatible
Tiger-Heli: compatible
Top Gun: compatible
Top Gun The Second Mission: compatible
Vindicators: compatible
Wizards & Warriors: compatible
Zanac: compatible

Famicom:

Akumajou Densetsu: semi-compatible (works with missing audio from the VRC6 due to the cartridge slot not being wired for expansion audio)
B-Wings: compatible
Booby Kids: compatible
De-Block: compatible
Dragon Slayer IV: compatible
Gradius: compatible
Gradius II: compatible
Highway Star: compatible
Knight Rider: compatible
Layla: compatible
Mappy: compatible
Mario Open Golf: compatible
Pac-Land: compatible
Plasma Ball: compatible
Popeye: compatible
Rampart: compatible
RockMan 4: compatible
Salamander: compatible
SonSon: compatible
Super Mario Bros. 2 (pirate cart of the Japanese Disk System version): compatible
Super Mario Bros. 3: compatible
The Wing of Madoola: compatible
TwinBee 3: compatible

All games require a Famicom to NES adapter to work.

NES/Famicom pirate multicarts:

31-in-1: compatible
15-in-1: compatible
71-in-1: compatible
110-in-1: compatible
190-in-1: compatible

Genesis:

-After Burner II: compatible
-Altered Beast: compatible
-Air Diver: compatible
-Ayrton Senna's Super Monaco GP II: compatible
-Bio Hazard Battle: compatible
-Blades of Vengeance: compatible
-Blockout: compatible
-Brett Hull Hockey '95: compatible
-Castlevania Bloodlines: compatible
-Contra Hard Corps: compatible
-Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine: compatible
-Ferrari Grand Prix Challenge: compatible
-Formula One: compatible
-Gaiares: compatible
-Galaxy Force II: compatible
-G-LOC Air Battle: compatible
-Golden Axe: compatible
-Gunstar Heroes: compatible
-Lotus II R.E.C.S.: compatible
-Mario Andretti Racing: compatible
-MegaMan - The Wily Wars (converted region-free reproduction cart): compatible
-MIG-29 Fighter Pilot: compatible
-Newman-Hass IndyCar Featuring Nigel Mansell: compatible
-NHL 96: compatible
-Nigel Mansell's World Championship Racing: compatible
-OutRun 2019: compatible
-Road Rash: compatible
-Road Rash II: compatible
-Road Rash 3: compatible
-Rolling Thunder 2: compatible
-Rolling Thunder 3: compatible
-Sagaia/Darius II: compatible
-Sonic the Hedgehog (US version): compatible
-Sonic 2: compatible
-Sonic 3: compatible
-Sonic Spinball: compatible
-Sonic 3D Blast: compatible
-Sonic & Knuckles: compatible
-Sonic the Hedgehog locked onto Sonic & Knuckles (Blue Sphere): compatible
-Sonic 2 locked onto Sonic & Knuckles: compatible
-Sonic 3 locked onto Sonic & Knuckles: compatible
-Space Harrier II: compatible
-Sub-Terrania: compatible
-Super Hang-On: compatible
-Super Monaco GP: compatible
-Super Off-Road: compatible
-Super Street Fighter II: compatible
-Super Thunder Blade: compatible
-Thunder Force II MD: compatible
-Thunder Force III: compatible
-Thunder Force IV/Lightening Force: compatible
-Thunder Fox: compatible
-Top Gear 2: compatible
-Twin Cobra: compatible
-Universal Soldier: compatible
-Virtua Racing: INCOMPATIBLE (does not boot)
-Whip Rush: compatible

Japanese MegaDrive:

-F1 Circus MD: compatible (region switch position does not matter)
-Sonic the Hedgehog: compatible (region switch position does not matter)
-Zero Wing: compatible (region switch position does not matter)

European MegaDrive:

-MegaMan - The Wily Wars: semi-compatible (requires a Game Genie to bypass the region check, otherwise the game will boot to a region code error)
-Sonic the Hedgehog: compatible (game runs in NTSC glitch-free)
-Zero Wing: compatible (game runs in NTSC glitch-free)

Genesis Add-ons:

-Sega CD: INCOMPATIBLE(duh)
-Sega 32X: INCOMPATIBLE(duh)
-Sega Master System converters: compatible

Master System games:

-Ace of Aces: compatible (may fail to work on certain consoles)
-Altered Beast: semi-compatible (works with lots of missing audio)
-After Burner: compatible (may require power-cycling to work)
-Double Dragon: compatible
-Galaxy Force: compatible
-Global Defense: compatible (may fail to work on certain consoles)
-Hang-On/Safari Hunt: compatible
-OutRun: compatible
-R-Type: compatible
-Sonic the Hedgehog (European version): compatible
-Space Harrier: compatible
-Space Harrier 3D: compatible
-Thunder Blade: compatible
-Zaxxon 3D: compatible

Super NES:

Arkanoid Doh it Again: compatible
Axelay: compatible
Battle Grand Prix: compatible
Brett Hull Hockey '95: compatible
Contra III: compatible
Darius Twin: compatible
Doom: compatible
F-Zero: compatible
Gradius III: compatible
Lethal Enforcers: compatible
Lock-On: compatible
MegaMan X: compatible
MegaMan X2: compatible
Michael Andretti's IndyCar Challenge: compatible
NHL 98: compatible
Nigel Mansell's World Championship Racing: compatible
Pilotwings: compatible
Raiden Trad: compatible
R-Type III: compatible
Star Trek Starfleet Academy: compatible
StarFox: compatible
Strike Gunner STG: compatible
Stunt Race FX: compatible
Super Castlevania IV: compatible
Super Mario Kart: compatible
Super Nova: compatible
Super R-Type: compatible
Super Strike Eagle: compatible
Thunder Spirits: compatible
Top Gear: compatible
Top Gear 2: compatible
Top Gear 3000: compatible
UN Squadron: compatible
WarpSpeed: compatible
Williams Arcade's Greatest Hits: compatible
Wing Commander: compatible
Wing Commander - The Secret Missions: compatible
Wings 2 - Aces High: compatible

Super Famicom:

Gradius III: compatible
Jaleco Rally Big Run: compatible
Monster Maker III: compatible
Super Mario RPG (with lockout chip check): INCOMPATIBLE (does not boot)
Super Mario World: compatible

-Super GameBoy: compatible

Flash cartridges:

RetroZone NES PowerPak: INCOMPATBILE (shows the PowerPak text when first loaded, flashes Card error - not ready very quickly when you press the Reset button)

I may have forgotten a few games, so if I did, I'll add to the list.

Random_Hajile1980
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:59 am

Ace, I should be able to provide you with a sample of the audio in a day or two, I am trying to look for my capture equipment, as soon as I can dig it up I will post it. I just started my FDS library so I think the only game I have that uses expansion audio is Gyruss will that work? I tried to borrow a friend's Zelda disk but he doesn't want to loan it to me.

I decided that I am going to pick up another Retron 3 soon so I can test the lockout chip mod, and I want to do further experiments to see if Virtua Racing can ever be made to work on the genesis side, I have a few things I want to try on that front, plus I want to see if I can wire in a replacement for the 7805, and I do not want to wreck my main Retron 3 in the process.

ttsgeb
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Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by ttsgeb » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:55 pm

This is an insane convo you are having. SO MUCH INFO...
Keep it up. :D

Ace_1
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:09 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Ace_1 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:45 am

Random_Hajile1980 wrote:Ace, I should be able to provide you with a sample of the audio in a day or two, I am trying to look for my capture equipment, as soon as I can dig it up I will post it. I just started my FDS library so I think the only game I have that uses expansion audio is Gyruss will that work? I tried to borrow a friend's Zelda disk but he doesn't want to loan it to me.
I'm not that familiar with how Gyruss is supposed to sound, but if I can at least find a dump of the disk, I can load it onto my Twin Famicom to check the volume levels.
Random_Hajile1980 wrote:I want to do further experiments to see if Virtua Racing can ever be made to work on the genesis side, I have a few things I want to try on that front
Good luck with that. The TCT-6801 and Virtua Racing simply do not want to cooperate; everything I try results in the 3D graphics glitching out and the game crashing. I have yet to figure out whether it's a problem with the missing !CE_H signal on pin B26 of the cartridge slot (which can be faked by linking the pin to B11) or a bad Clock line. Whatever the case may be, everything I tried failed. Link B26 to B16 (this is the old way of faking !CE_H), game glitches and locks up; link B26 to B11, same thing; use the Clock line of a Genesis instead of the TCT-6801, it still glitches and locks up. I'm at a loss here and I don't have access to an oscilloscope, so I can't check to see what is the frequency of the Clock line on the RetroN3 (this is pin B19).

Random_Hajile1980
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:47 pm

Good luck with that. The TCT-6801 and Virtua Racing simply do not want to cooperate; everything I try results in the 3D graphics glitching out and the game crashing. I have yet to figure out whether it's a problem with the missing !CE_H signal on pin B26 of the cartridge slot (which can be faked by linking the pin to B11) or a bad Clock line. Whatever the case may be, everything I tried failed. Link B26 to B16 (this is the old way of faking !CE_H), game glitches and locks up; link B26 to B11, same thing; use the Clock line of a Genesis instead of the TCT-6801, it still glitches and locks up. I'm at a loss here and I don't have access to an oscilloscope, so I can't check to see what is the frequency of the Clock line on the RetroN3 (this is pin B19).
I did not believe running Virtua Racing was even possible until a few days ago, my friend that owns that game shop called me in to look at a very interesting clone he was fixing (broken controller port pins) It was in the case of a Mega Drive 2 and had a 6801..... he put in and played with virtua racing with no crash or graphical glitches, needless to say I was shocked. I may not have access to it for long, it's whenever the owner picks it up from the shop, but my friend owns a oscilloscope and is attempting to get me all the relative signals and sine wave readings in the time we have it.

so depending on what I can discover poking and prodding the retron3 and this clone there may be some way of getting it going, providing I can get the necessary data.

Ace_1
Posts: 138
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Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Ace_1 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:21 pm

Random_Hajile1980 wrote:I did not believe running Virtua Racing was even possible until a few days ago, my friend that owns that game shop called me in to look at a very interesting clone he was fixing (broken controller port pins) It was in the case of a Mega Drive 2 and had a 6801..... he put in and played with virtua racing with no crash or graphical glitches, needless to say I was shocked.
:!: :!: :!: :shock:

HOW??? There must be some connection to pin B26 on that GOAC. Try to find out which pin that links to (if it's even linked there to begin with) and take some pictures of this MegaDrive 2 clone's PCB if you can. I want to see this thing.

Random_Hajile1980
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:51 pm

HOW??? There must be some connection to pin B26 on that GOAC. Try to find out which pin that links to (if it's even linked there to begin with) and take some pictures of this MegaDrive 2 clone's PCB if you can. I want to see this thing.
I will do my best to get pictures of the internals if I can, but I'm a bit worried because I may not have access very long. I will say that looking at it, it has three boards a power board, processor/cart slot board, and controller port board, kind of like a Yobo FC. what's funny is the case is a real megadrive 2 shell (slightly modified) the owner mentioned the original was blue/pink(!?) and was purchased in Hong Kong. but because the shell is not original I can't tell you what it was called.
According to my buddy who had been fiddling with it, he tells me there are two oscillator crystals on it and he is supposed to send me the values, perhaps the values are just different enough to make the game work.
I'm going to see if I can find which signals are hooked up to the cart slot, maybe something will help us get VR running on other 6801 GOACs.

Ace_1
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Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Ace_1 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:24 pm

I think when there are two crystals on a GOAC-based Geniclone, it's usually to make it dual PAL/NTSC compatible. I highly doubt that has anything to do with the Clock required by Virtua Racing.

Get those images to me ASAP. This may be our only chance to finally get Virtua Racing working on the TCT-6801. All of my prior attempts have failed.

Random_Hajile1980
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:21 am

I have attached the gyruss FDS sound file for you to check the levels of the audio expansion modification.
I had to use mediafire because the board's attach file function is useless....
http://www.mediafire.com/?m78n2u8w1wxyavu

On the unusual GOAC clone, some news, some good, some some bad... the bad news is that the owner had already picked it up when I went to get photos.... but the good news is that my friend had talked to the owner about selling it, He seemed receptive about it and is supposed to call him next week if he decides to sell it, and if that happens I will have full access to it.

The two crystals are valued at 53.693 mhz and the other one is the same as the retron 3 what the high frequency one is for I do not know.....

Ace_1
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Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Ace_1 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:56 am

Random_Hajile1980 wrote:The two crystals are valued at 53.693 mhz and the other one is the same as the retron 3 what the high frequency one is for I do not know.....
The 53.693MHz crystal is the NTSC master clock on the Genesis. Is this maybe the key to getting Virtua Racing to work? Most Geniclones I see only use a 14.31818MHz crystal, so it's possible the Clock line is running at the wrong frequency on the TCT-6801 due to the missing 53.693MHz crystal.

Random_Hajile1980
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Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:32 pm

The 53.693MHz crystal is the NTSC master clock on the Genesis. Is this maybe the key to getting Virtua Racing to work? Most Geniclones I see only use a 14.31818MHz crystal, so it's possible the Clock line is running at the wrong frequency on the TCT-6801 due to the missing 53.693MHz crystal.
that's kind of what I am thinking, I really need to get my hands in there and see how everything is wired up in that clone so we can use it to get 100% compatibility on the genesis side, I kinda wish I asked my friend to trace the clock circuits. If I can't get my hands on it, I am going to take my genesis and the Retron3 to my local college and see if I can use the Oscilloscope there to match the clock inputs, because I'm almost positive the reason that VR is crashing is because the clocks are out of sync so the two processors can't talk to each other and just crash. WE WILL GET V.R. WORKING YET!

On a side note, I had been working on repairing my Mega CD v1 this week , so I had my original Genesis hooked up and realized I never actually checked the Retron 3 and the Genesis audio side by side, so I did that tonight and I discovered that on my Retron3 the stereo is NOT reversed and actually sounds very close to my real system just heavier on bass. So at least some of these are wired properly. That's what's hilarious with clones...absolutely NO consistency even with systems of the same revision....

EDIT 4/27:
I was unable to convince the owner of the clone to part with it, after he found out why I wanted it he wanted to charge me stupid money for it, no amount of haggling worked so I am going with plan B, I will be picking up a copy of Virtua Racing next week and I will start messing with it to see if I can get it going, if anybody has a overclocked sega genesis perhaps you can tell me what happens if the game is turned on with the overclock enabled, that could be my starting point.

Random_Hajile1980
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Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Fri May 24, 2013 4:19 pm

It's been a while so I am posting an update, I have not been able to buy a copy of Virtua Racing yet so until I can, the genesis mod is temporarily stalled.
But I have been slowly working on developing the SNES CIC mod, being that there is so much data to double check I am taking my time to be sure everything is correct. it is all being assembled on a PIC project board from radio shack, I will build the prototype and get it running, then I will post photos and parts list with instructions assuming the installation is successful, this CIC mod should be useful to anyone wanting to add a lockout to a SNES clone using the same chipset as the Retron 3. my hope is to get this working by the end of June.
However my only concern on this mod is that the CIC chip will interrupt the reset button, but I am unsure if this will prevent the NES or Genesis sides from resetting normally. Anyone have ideas on this?

I noticed on this page http://www.made-by-bacteria.com/viewtop ... =18&t=2781 the builder of this nifty portable posted a pinout for the snes portion (it's partway down the page) and it has an alternative reset point, perhaps this is where I could tap in to for the CIC? Ace, do you think that will work?

Ace_1
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Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Ace_1 » Sat May 25, 2013 7:50 am

I just had a look at the page and man, someone needs to tell them that the RetroN3 Version 2 is discontinued. That's a Version 3 shown. Shows how little people know of this hardware revision.

But back on topic, you could get all the necessary signals for the lockout chip from those spots. Don't worry about it interfering with the Reset line on the NOAC and GOAC; the lockout chip will only be powered when the Super NES side receives power. Although the system shares a common Reset line, if the lockout chip doesn't receive power, it shouldn't do anything.

However, the 5V point shown is the common 5V point for the entire system. Don't use that as if you do, the lockout chip will be powered on at all times. Use the blue wire on the system selector switch to get 5V for the lockout chip instead. This wire is what delivers 5V to the Super NES side.

Random_Hajile1980
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Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Sat May 25, 2013 9:37 pm

Yeah that's so not a version 2 board....

Well I can report that using a stock NTSC lockout chip this way does not work at all, either I hooked something up wrong, or possibly the CIC requires a clock signal (3.072MHz) to be present that is hidden somewhere on the clone's existing bus, the lockout keeps the system in reset state, and SA-1 games still obviously won't boot. I think I have two options at this point, buy a pic programmer and make a SuperCIC universal chip to wire in or buy a proper crystal and install it on the CIC's clock line to create the missing signal.
If someone wants to try either of these I can still offer photos of what I've got done so far.

I also should warn everyone about the Genesis/Wireless controller port daughtercard, If any of those wires become damaged the SNES starts having issues resetting games, at first I thought it was my modboard causing the issue, but i found a few lines on the daughtercard that were intermittently opening preventing proper reset and the wireless controllers wouldn't function in NES or SNES mode, fixed it and things worked again.

EDIT 08/08: I haven't given up on this project, it's just stalled for the moment, when I re visit it I will put up a new post.

Edit 10/10 I wanted to share that I found the Genesis side's PAL/NTSC jumper, it is located in a row of 3 solder jumpers near the TCT-6801 chip, the one you want is the one closest to the front of the console in that line. If the solder blob is removed and a switch installed in it's place you can boot PAL region games. I Still have to get a copy of VR to work out compatibility mod for that.

EDIT 1/7/14 I still have not been able to locate a reasonably priced Virtua Racing cart, with the Retron 5 on the horizon, and the Super Retro Trio that needs to be tested, I can't see many people caring anymore about this mod. If I can get it working I will post an update here however, this is not a priority. And although I will keep posting game compatibility updates on this thread, I will not be putting other updates in unless I have something earth shattering to share.

EDIT 6/26/14 The Fix for Virtua Racing and the Mega Everdrive has been found! http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread ... Racing-fix looks like Ace and TmEE solved the problem. I have performed the fix but still don't have VR to test.
I may look into picking up some PIC chips to make a SuperCIC for SMRPG and Kirby SS compatibility now that the Genesis side had been fixed

Final EDIT 2/12/16 This project has been abandoned. I have given up console gaming completely, SuperCIC was not functional in this system and after several tries I decided it is a better option to buy a SRT instead if you want better compatibility.
Last edited by Random_Hajile1980 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Random_Hajile1980
Posts: 38
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Re: A Retron 3 project, and a few queries...

Post by Random_Hajile1980 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:02 pm

Edit: nevermind I got it to work had to solder the wire to a different spot than I had it. but it now plays Virtua Racing 100%

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