The Retro64 Worklog. NEWS: Finished! Got nice pics!

Includes but not limited to: SNES, Genesis, Sega CD, PlayStation 1, Nintendo 64, Dreamcast, Game Gear and I guess the Virtual Boy.

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collinE
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Post by collinE » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:49 pm

so do they work? :D
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Mario
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Post by Mario » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:17 pm

Haven't tried them out yet. I will try right now.

They most likely will not work, because they are not bi-directional. I will soo what else I can do with them, though.

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Post by Electric Rain » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:08 pm

...You must have a lot of money. Image

Seriously though, you may not need bi-directional ones, just a transmitter and receiver on both ends. And I think they can be on the same frequency. Don't hold me to that, though.
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Post by jleemero » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:49 pm

Mario wrote: The transmitters and receivers I ordered that were SUPPOSED to come in tubes of 50 came today. Guess what? I got ONE OF EACH. $30! What a waste of money...

If you're curious, the whole "Tubes of 50" thing is just the standard packaging, what they come in if you order in bulk. Info VERY important to, say, a manufacturer planning to use these in some device.

Still sucks though man, nobody can blame you for making that mistake really. :(

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Post by Mario » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:42 pm

Electric Rain wrote:...You must have a lot of money. Image

Seriously though, you may not need bi-directional ones, just a transmitter and receiver on both ends. And I think they can be on the same frequency. Don't hold me to that, though.
Not really, my birthday was on 9/30, so I had about $200 from that. Now it's about $50 after buying a PS1 screen and a BT-42 battery that I didn't know was recalled until AFTER I bought it. >_< :evil:

If I put the a transmitter and receiver at both ends of the same frequency, then there would be feedback. The N64 would be receiving the signals it sends out.
jleemero wrote:
Mario wrote: The transmitters and receivers I ordered that were SUPPOSED to come in tubes of 50 came today. Guess what? I got ONE OF EACH. $30! What a waste of money...

If you're curious, the whole "Tubes of 50" thing is just the standard packaging, what they come in if you order in bulk. Info VERY important to, say, a manufacturer planning to use these in some device.

Still sucks though man, nobody can blame you for making that mistake really. :(
Yeah, I realized that shortly after I received my 1 transmitter and receiver.

Other bad news: When soldering stuff to the transmitter to try it out, I accidentally switched the + and - wires, so it might have fried. I'm not sure yet, I need to try it with audio or something...

For a bit of good news, I have been e-mailing the manufacture of those new wireless transmitters I found (These ones), and it's looking good for these. There are several I/O pins, and these are pretty much perfect, except for the price tag, of course.

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Post by Electric Rain » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:12 pm

Mario wrote:
Electric Rain wrote:Seriously though, you may not need bi-directional ones, just a transmitter and receiver on both ends. And I think they can be on the same frequency. Don't hold me to that, though.
If I put the a transmitter and receiver at both ends of the same frequency, then there would be feedback. The N64 would be receiving the signals it sends out.
Like I said, the bi-directional data line is ONE line. Wouldn't you think that would cause "feedback" as well? It doesn't because it's technically only being used in one direction at a time. The controller and the console share the line, sure, but they "take turns" using it, so it's ONLY going from the controller to the console, or from the console to the controller at any given moment. Thus, my theory is that it should work the same way if you stick transparent RF modules on them as well. But, RF isn't really my specialty, so I can't be 100% sure.
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Post by Mario » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:46 pm

Electric Rain wrote:
Mario wrote:
Electric Rain wrote:Seriously though, you may not need bi-directional ones, just a transmitter and receiver on both ends. And I think they can be on the same frequency. Don't hold me to that, though.
If I put the a transmitter and receiver at both ends of the same frequency, then there would be feedback. The N64 would be receiving the signals it sends out.
Like I said, the bi-directional data line is ONE line. Wouldn't you think that would cause "feedback" as well? It doesn't because it's technically only being used in one direction at a time. The controller and the console share the line, sure, but they "take turns" using it, so it's ONLY going from the controller to the console, or from the console to the controller at any given moment. Thus, my theory is that it should work the same way if you stick transparent RF modules on them as well. But, RF isn't really my specialty, so I can't be 100% sure.
You are right in that the data line is bi-directional and that only one thing is sending data at once. BUT, imagine this. The N64 sends a data request to the controller through the transmitter. The same receiver that is on the N64 will pick up the signals sent to the controller, and will mess up the N64. It won't work unless the transmitters/receivers are different frequencies.

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Post by Electric Rain » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:03 pm

I don't want to argue, but I'm gonna...

If the receiver was going to pick up the transmitter's signal and "mess up" the N64, how can it transmit and receive over the same line? Why wouldn't it do the same? This is why. The N64 polls the controller, AKA requests information on what buttons have been pressed, then the controller responds with 32 bits of information. The first 16 bits detail which of the buttons are pressed, and the second 16 bits detail the position of the joystick. These are sent in packets. The device sending the packet won't respond to its own packet, because that's not the packet it's expecting. Do you understand what I mean now?
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Post by Mario » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:43 pm

Electric Rain wrote:I don't want to argue, but I'm gonna...

If the receiver was going to pick up the transmitter's signal and "mess up" the N64, how can it transmit and receive over the same line? Why wouldn't it do the same? This is why. The N64 polls the controller, AKA requests information on what buttons have been pressed, then the controller responds with 32 bits of information. The first 16 bits detail which of the buttons are pressed, and the second 16 bits detail the position of the joystick. These are sent in packets. The device sending the packet won't respond to its own packet, because that's not the packet it's expecting. Do you understand what I mean now?
When the N64 receives it's own packet, it might think that it is the data from the controller. Obviously, it won't contain the data it is looking for, so it won't respond to the packets from the controller.

Or, I might be wrong. The N64 might ignore any packets it receives until it gets the one it's looking for. In that case, you would be right.

In any case, we'll never know. I am not ordering any more of those, because it would be more expensive and more likely to fail. I am going to order those other things I saw. Those are most likely to work.

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Post by Electric Rain » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:57 pm

Well, I just hope SOMETHING works, because it'd be awfully convenient just slap one of the modules onto the N64 and a controller and have an instant wireless connection. :P
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Post by Mario » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:50 pm

anotherperson wrote:If you have enough transmitters and receivers to do what Electric Rain is talking about, you should give it a shot. Unless there is a really high latency in transmission from the transmitter or reciever it should work fine.

Think of it as presenting a lecture with a microphone. You don't even notice your own voice coming out of the speakers because it occurs at the same time as you're talking. If two lecturers with microphones and speakers talk at the same time, they will hear each other but not themselves.
Good explanation, but as I said before, I only actually got only 1 receiver and transmitter, and I'm not paying $30 for another pair.

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Post by Dark-Aries » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:59 pm

Mario wrote:
anotherperson wrote:If you have enough transmitters and receivers to do what Electric Rain is talking about, you should give it a shot. Unless there is a really high latency in transmission from the transmitter or reciever it should work fine.

Think of it as presenting a lecture with a microphone. You don't even notice your own voice coming out of the speakers because it occurs at the same time as you're talking. If two lecturers with microphones and speakers talk at the same time, they will hear each other but not themselves.
Good explanation, but as I said before, I only actually got only 1 receiver and transmitter, and I'm not paying $30 for another pair.
In't the n64 only three cables? Positive, Negative and Ground? Ground you won't need a transmitter...well I dunno bout ground really but you could have positive and then just have a hardwired connection for negative...if it works half the time all you have to do is buy another one and you got instant wireless..

I doubt this would actually work, but it can't hurt to try right?

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Post by Mario » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:02 pm

Dark-Aries wrote:
Mario wrote:
anotherperson wrote:If you have enough transmitters and receivers to do what Electric Rain is talking about, you should give it a shot. Unless there is a really high latency in transmission from the transmitter or reciever it should work fine.

Think of it as presenting a lecture with a microphone. You don't even notice your own voice coming out of the speakers because it occurs at the same time as you're talking. If two lecturers with microphones and speakers talk at the same time, they will hear each other but not themselves.
Good explanation, but as I said before, I only actually got only 1 receiver and transmitter, and I'm not paying $30 for another pair.
In't the n64 only three cables? Positive, Negative and Ground? Ground you won't need a transmitter...well I dunno bout ground really but you could have positive and then just have a hardwired connection for negative...if it works half the time all you have to do is buy another one and you got instant wireless..

I doubt this would actually work, but it can't hurt to try right?
Actually, the N64 controller has 3.3v (Positive), Data, and Ground. Also, hardwiring it and having it work only half the time will not work. I won't work at all if you don't have all the wires connected. :wink:

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Post by Mario » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:36 pm

Okay, last weekend on Saturday I ordered the new transmitters that should definitely work. The next day they said that they were shipped, so I should get them very soon. Hope these work!

In other news, I received a battery I bought from eBay. It's one of those SONY camcorder batteries. It's going inside my portable, so I'm disassembling it because it needs to be flat inside my portable. As far as I know, I;m the first one to do this, so I hope it goes well... (Like not blowing myself up...)

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Post by collinE » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:46 pm

Mario wrote:(Like not blowing myself up...)
I think that's the reason nobody did it. :D

If you leave it intact, you can remove it and charge it with a safe charger. If you take it apart, then you have to make sure you don't over charge it with your own. I hear it's also good to give it a few whacks with a hammer before you charge it. :shock:
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