Bacteria's N64/GBA combined portable - Nintendo 64 Advance

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:28 am

I haven't used them for a long play session, but they do mould nicely in your hands, so I guess I can say they are fine to use for a long play period; certainly far better than the official N64 controllers, no matter how I hold the official ones, they are uncomfortable and hard to use.

I initially got this controller because the buttons are flat (not angled and different heights, and the joystick is flat and not at an angle) - ideal for my console project. It then transpired when I opened the controller up that the joystick on these third party controllers is of much better quality too.

ShockSlayer · Post by **ShockSlayer** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:42 am

Are you going to try replaceing any with a GC joystick?

(I probably wont post again till later today, I gotta get to my garage, maybe some pics too!)

SS

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:27 am

I had originally thought about it, but as I am going for comfort and not the thinnest, I don't need to have a shorter joystick (eg GC one), so may as well use the joystick from the controller. It feels nice and is responsive.

Metal Mario · Post by **Metal Mario** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:16 pm

Those SuperPad Controllers look like they would be better even if they weren't used on a portable (just for regular gaming).

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:09 am

Metal Mario wrote:Those SuperPad Controllers look like they would be better even if they weren't used on a portable (just for regular gaming).

Yes, they are. I recommend getting one (or two). Mind you, they aren't too easy to get hold of from e-bay, so best get them as they appear.

Twisted Warthog · Post by **Twisted Warthog** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:17 am

I got two of those controllers from a Flea Market in my city in perfect condition for $10.

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:37 am

Twisted Warthog wrote:I got two of those controllers from a Flea Market in my city in perfect condition for $10.

Great bargain. If you tire of them you could sell them on e-bay for up to 3x - 4x this price (inc delivery); make a nice profit.

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:12 am

Time to upload pics of the right hand side of the case; the buttons section.

The layout is unconventional I know, however I have made it not only unique, but more importantly, comfortable and easy to get to the buttons without contorting my hands! Natural layout. I have designed it so that my forefinger can control the right shoulder button and sweep towards the four "C" keys (the yellow buttons below), without moving my hand about. The A and B buttons are positioned nicely under the sweep of my thumb. The buttons are going to be low on purpose, so this idea will work very well indeed.

I could have used the various single rubber contacts I have accumulated from the left and right shoulder buttons and Z button contacts (these are invariably small single rubber contact switches, with two wires), however I intend to use the 12mm tact switches as covered earlier in this topic. I might however use a different style of buttons for the shoulder buttons; maybe the drop-type from a GameCube controller I have in bits at the moment.

I have uploaded two pics - one with the layout and the other with the (un-lowered) buttons, as an illustration. I may not use these buttons in the end, may make my own, depends how easy it is to cut the official ones correctly.

It is easy to make the buttons work on the N64 and GBA; the GBA needs the right shoulder, A, B, Start, GBA menu, Select. On the other hal of the console, I need the D-pad and right shoulder buttons. I just hook up dual connections to each required button (as covered in previous part of this topic too). Easy.

Side view

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:33 am

Just for fun, I put the elements together. I think it looks neat! I used my fried N64 mobo for the pic, it doesn't matter putting this one near carpet!!

Pic shows the position of the cart - only pertrudes a small amount, enough to grip to remove and insert cart in system.

Finished design (from pic) 295mm wide (11.5"), 32mm deep (1.25") (about 62mm in middle (2.3")), 180mm high (7"). This is a good size, not too big.

I am happy with the way this will look, I can imagine what it will look like when finished. If I can paint the reverse of acetate sheets (6 or 10 thou thick) I will get a sleek and perfectly smooth coloured surface. Before applying this coat to the acetate, I can print wording as appropriate on the acetate for a very professional look. Needs experimenting with later. This is why I might make my own buttons - grey or black buttons will look better than prime colours.

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:38 am

Time for a quick update before I finish for the day:

I cut out (using a craft knife) a strip of mounting board to cover the cart slot area for part of the PSone mobo to rest on. This piece represents the distance from the edge of the N64 mobo and the small pertruding bit on the cart slot (shown earlier in post). I hot glued the edges of the card to the N64 mobo itself, and secured the mounting board to the cart slot with a strip of electrical tape, and also three strips of electrical tape secured to the inside part of the cart slot with hot glue (pressed tape into place) and taped to the mounting board. This gives good strength.

The mounting board not only provides a nice non-conductive flat surface for the PSone mobo, but also finishes off the cart slot area. The gap from the top of the cart itself to the mounting board is just under 1mm; however there is about a 5mm gap on both sides of the cart - this is for the airflow in. Remember earlier I mentioned airflow would enter from the cart slot area and exhaust on the reverse of the card, past the processors? This is what I had in mind.

Tomorrow I will do the other part of the mounting board assembly. I will expose a small area to get air to the PSone mobo too (may as well).

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:35 pm

Snipped off the tiny bit on the end of the controller which stuck out at the base of the N64 mobo, only about 3mm, no traces there, so no issues.

Cut out some mounting board to fit on the rest of the area. I left gaps between the two pieces so it would be east to get to in the future if I needed to. To remove the card to get to the controller for any potential repairs (if needed), I just need to snip off the edge of one of the sides of the card (with electrical tape over it at the moment), and secure the piece back when finished.

Side view showing the wires from the controller going to the joystick, D-pad, Z button and the left shoulder button.

Side view showing wires from the controller going to the buttons (the four "C" buttons, A, B, right shoulder, start, select, GBA menu/slow-mo).

Actually, I don't need any airflow for the PSone screen, after all, it is normally sealed; so I therefore used more electrical tape (like this stuff, not only for protecting wires and stopping them touching others, but also because it is nice and tacky and flexible) to seal the gaps. This means there is only one way for air to move - in from the cart slot area and out the back of the card; just as it should be.

Moment of truth!

Time to do a mock-up - putting the PSone screen (roughly) in place, booting system up and checking everything is fine. The wires hanging off the desk (bottom of pic) are the button tact switches; off the top of the pic at the top is the on/off switch and the car adapter. The one thing to note is that I got things a little back to front - the PSone screen will not be mounted on the mounting board (as in pic) but on the opposite side of the system. This means I can have a cut-out for the cart graphics at the rear of the case (looks nice), the cart will now be in effect at the rear of the case. Tiny point, not important, but worth mentioning!

Larger pic of the system; easier to visualise the system now (all be it the PSone screen will be at the other side of the mobo)!

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:52 pm

Another update (hence so soon after last one) - as the forum was down for a while, I did a fair bit of work and documented it ready for when it was live again.

This part of the project is entirely optional, it is relevant as I am making a combined N64/GBA console (hence my signature logo).

Before I go much further, I need to pull the BigBoy Advance (previous project) to extract the GBA mobo and the GBA Transverter, wire it up to the buttons, provide its power and test it. This will mean more of a "spagetti junction" of wiring, but has to be done, and this is the appropriate time to do it.

To power the GBA system, it needs the mains power I am using for the N64p project to run the PSone screen and the Transverter; the GBA mobo itself needs between about 2.4v-3.3v, as I am not using the GBA screen itself, only the GBA mobo is being powered by batteries, which barely uses any power at all, so I will simply use two AA batteries for this purpose. I can't use the car adapter as it drains too much power as the Transverter is high drain on power and needs good voltage; I could use the TI board I got recently, but that is a waste of a TI board. I also can't use the same adapter for 3v to the N64 and GBA as otherwise the N64 mobo will be partially powered and so will the controller (I need the N64 off if running the GBA, and vice-versa). I could easily hook up the two AA batteries (I will use high power alkalines) to also connect to the N64 memory card (may as well).

I designed the case to be easy to remove, which it was. This was my first modding project (apart from some D-pad stuff on the GP2x), so the work was primitive, in comparison to what I am doing now, but it gave me a good learning base.

I won't elaborate as to how to rig up the GBA and GBA Transverter and what to solder to what; see my BigBoy Advance thread in the "news" section if you need this information. By making a combined N64 and GBA system it means I can play lots of games even if I don't have many N64 carts to hand, have a dual system also so I only need to carry one system instead of two. Hardly any weight difference, about 170g extra in total (only some wires, two fairly small mobos and a couple of AA's in a battery pack). Space in the case will be limited, but should all fit nice and snug and fine.

Quick pic of the guts of my previous project below. Had I known what I do now, I could have made the whole thing more compact:

Removed the two mobos as needed.

Out of interest, I measured the height of the two mobos together; about 30mm, which is the height of the inside of the case (by the buttons), except of course that this is too high as there is no way I can mount the tact switches for the buttons in this scenario. Time to do what I should have done ages ago (had I known what I do now) - cut off/reduce height of the GBA Transverter by hacking off the PSone plug on it. This could save me about 6mm in height, which will make all the difference. There is no issue with the length of the boards - I had to allow 85mm for my fingers to hold the console comfortably (as per previous posting); good thing too as it transpires, although the GBA mobo is 72mm wide, it is 85mm wide with the cart and cable included! I can't reduce this as I don't want to experiment with the flimsy ribbon cable! This might mean I need to raise the width on both sides by 2-3mm. hmmm - may not need to, not sure yet.

I gingerly cut the PSone connector away with my dremel, it came off without much problem. I am hoping I don't damage this Transverter mobo, I don't have another one! The pic below shows the connector removed, and the pins on the mobo (nice and low, I snipped them down).

I then replaced the paper masking tape I used instead of electrical tape, with proper electrical tape! There was no issue before as the two GBA mobos were kept apart by the thick PSone connector; however now I have reduced the height, there is a real risk of a short, so I covered the whole side of the GBA mobo with electrical tape before securing the Transverter to it with hot glue.

The height is now 26mm at the thick part (the cart slot and cart), which is fine; it gives enough clearance for me to position the tact switches and wiring easily. The tact switches are 4mm thick, so should be ok. There is no point in relocating the cart slot on the GBA, unless it is difficult to get easy access to the flashcard.

Front and back of the GBA mobos - ready to connect up the wires and give it a test afterwards...

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:46 am

Ok, I didn't make a mistake with the sides I had the joystick/D-pad and the side with the buttons - working upside down and the wrong way around confused me - everything is in the right place.

Small update on pic below; I have wired the on/off switch to the power in line, which then goes into a 2 way switch: one to the N64 system and the other to the GBA system.

It will work as thus:

* System can be plugged into power but nothing happens if the on/off switch is off.

* The 2 way switch will always either be set for N64 or GBA. To switch between the two, you can safely just flip the switch, but it is better to switch the on/off to the off position first (if I forget however, it won't cause a problem).

* If I need to reset the GBA to play a different game (back to menu) I have to turn the on/off switch to off and then back on again.

* If I need to change the cart in the N64 while in N64 mode, turn on/off switch off, change cart, turn switch on again.

* Reset button is the on/off button.

Tested the N64 part of this, works fine; I do however have a mass of wires to connect to the GBA before I can test that.

The next pics I will post will be the whole system wired up and running. I then need to solder wires and larger tact switches to the PSone tact switches for the volume and contrast controls so I can alter these from the top of the case. I don't like the PSone buttons where they are normally.

There is quite a lot of work to do for the GBA part (lots of soldering wires), turns out the mobos will fit but will be a bit snugger in my case than I originally anticipated. Not a problem, I can accommodate this ok.

I have run out of project time now today, back again tomorrow!

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:10 am

Interesting....

I wired up all the GBA buttons and the D-pad to share the N64 ones, as posted before, tested each connection, put the mobos together and positioned them where they will go in the case; established that I will in fact be able to put everything in place with my 85mm clearance; turned it on; N64 booted fine, switched to the GBA, got my menu, all seemed ok; however none of the GBA buttons worked at all. I tried desoldering some key wires (eg ground for the D-pad) and nothing still. I then removed all the wires and started to connect them one by one and keep testing. Nada.

For some reason, connecting the GBA controls to the shared tact switches (shared with the controls to the N64) seems to interfere with the N64 controller and stops the GBA from doing anything, although you do get the GBA menu screen on the PSone screen fine. This must be due to the way the N64 controller connections integrate.

I then removed all the connections from the GBA, and booted the N64 - it took two attempts before my system saw the N64 controller attached - didn't do any damage, but proved linking it to the GBA wasn't clever - power from the GBA (3v) must have also transferred to the N64 controller, onto the button contacts - could have been a disaster!

I'm not giving up on this if I can, I have got this close to success. What I need to do is make a button which presses once and completes two circuits without the circuits being connected to each other. My options are:

1) modify a 12mm tact switch. I just opened one of these up; it relies on a single piece of convex metal as its spring; press the top, metal presses down, completes circuit. If I can cut this metal into two pieces, glue/tape it together to keep its strength, I only need to put a button on top and job done.

2) use two small tact switches together - button in middle, pressed down makes both tact switches work together (and making two separate circuits independently).

3) make my own switches and contacts.

I don't have much time this weekend for this, will have the day on Monday to play with. If I can solve this problem and get the buttons working in the above fashion, I have my N64/GBA project. The only compromise will be is that the D-pad will only work for the GBA and not the N64 too; although I might be able to solve this issue possibly (I can't have the two controllers sharing anything).

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:11 am

I had a few minutes playtime, so had a go at looking at the button/switch issue.

Deleted part of the last post, so as not to confuse readers.

Option 1 above had a problem - as I thought might happen, by cutting down the convex metal piece it looses its "springiness", and the pieces are so fiddly to "get right". I could make it work, but it is unlikely to work for long before failing, so no point continuing with this train of thought.

Option 2 above isn't good either, you can't press two tact switches at the same time reliably if connected together. Dead duck.

Only three possible options left then:

1) Make my own switches.
I did this stuff before, it is one of the reasons my logo has the Blue Peter incorporated - I got lots of "Blue Peter" comments from early work I did on the GP2x. I can make a switch with tin foil, foam pads, glue and self-adhesive paper (the basis of a switch after all is two pieces of conductive metal separated normally, pressed together to make contact). It is reliable, it is just a case of how good it is to use. By making a button in the middle of two separated sides with their own contacts, you in effect, have one button controlling two separate switches. As I remember, the one I made for the GP2x (the "centre push" button) worked rather well indeed.

It doesn't matter here if signals are sent to the N64 and GBA when you press a button, as if the GBA is on, the N64 is off, and vice-versa. Unlike before, the signals from the GBA were going into the N64 circuit and shorting to other things - the above design keeps the circuits separate; with the result similar to pressing the buttons on an N64 controller when it isn't connected to anything - ie zilch, which is ideal.

2) Have extra buttons on the case.
The other way to keep the contacts of the GBA and N64 separate is by separate buttons. The only real issues are the A, B and left and right shoulder buttons. The GBA does not need the "C" buttons and there is no real issue with having an extra "start" and "GBA menu" button.

3) Just keep project N64 and not N64/GBA.
I don't want this option, but if I have to, I have to.

I guess I will have to make my own buttons, and see how successful they prove to be. I only need to make four after all (see above) - however these are the buttons most used on the system, so they need to be made to last...