Suggestions on a beginner project(s)

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Sparkfist
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Suggestions on a beginner project(s)

Post by Sparkfist » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:34 am

Ok I'm finally in the situation where money isn't much of an issue, but time is. I'd like to get into circuit or computer design but to be honest I think the XGameStation console, for which I have the book is a little ahead of me. Any of you have a few good projects I could do to build some skill?

Personally I'd love to get to the point where I can design and build PCI computers (computers on a PCI card). Bring back the days were you could run a Macintosh literally inside your PC.
vskid wrote:Nerd = likes school, does all their homework, dies if they don't get 100% on every assignment
Geek = likes technology, dies if the power goes out and his UPS dies too

I am a geek.

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Post by Skyone » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:03 pm

Well, how much do you know about electricity and electrical theory? If you're aiming for PCI card development, then you should learn how the CPU handles RAM and obviously extensions (PCI, AGP). I'd also start to study ASM (Assembly) for PICs or even Win32 - syntax is the same anyways.

Can't go very in depth, but if you can give a bit more detail about your prior knowledge, I can help!

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Post by Sparkfist » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:58 pm

Well I understand how a computer works, sending signals to devices, ram and moving bits of data around. Took a class on this actually (still have that book), as mentioned before I have the "Black Art of Video Game Console" design, and even "Back to the Garage; building Apple 1 replica". I know the biggest problem for me is that I don't know any hex-code, BASIC is the lowest level language I do know.

For a time I considered the Apple 1 replica, but $175 or more for a kit... Sorry I have money, but am not made of it. The XGameStation Pico (SX-28 chip) I have been considering as a starting point but I'd like something that gets me closer to the computer arena.

As for the PCI, I have read about it and it's mentioned the PCI bus is very complex. Something a complete newbie like myself shouldn't be. So I might buy a book and look into ISA cards first. But really all that's likely years from now. I have to get a working knowledge about just getting a home-built computer working.

P.S. I don't think I'll be looking to do a lot of development under Windows. I like the UNIX world too much.
vskid wrote:Nerd = likes school, does all their homework, dies if they don't get 100% on every assignment
Geek = likes technology, dies if the power goes out and his UPS dies too

I am a geek.

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Post by myersn024 » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:58 pm

@Sparkfist: I've been thinking of doing something similar to what you're trying to do, and here's what info I've come up with. The Propeller chip manufactured by Parallax is probably your best bet if you don't mind learning a bunch of proprietary assembly language. I was going to purchase the Hydra Game Development kit (which utilizes the Propeller as its processor) until I realized that even their "high level" language, called Spin, is still very much like assembly. At some point in time, I still may purchase one since the Propeller chip is such a monster when it comes to computing power versus size. Its got 8 32-bit cores, runs at 80 MHz (I think), and can do VGA and composite video output without any extra hardware. It's no super computer or anything, but some believe that it could be used to create the Holy Grail for us portabilizers, a SNOAC. From what I've seen, that seems totally possible.

If I'm going to have to learn an assembly language, I'd rather learn one that isn't as proprietary. My plan, as of right now, is to learn how to program PICs using MPLAB. PICs aren't as powerful as the Propeller, but I think that if I learn more about some less complicated equipment first that I'll be better equipped if I ever decide to work with the propeller.

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Post by Sparkfist » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:42 pm

I have seen the Propeller and know about the Hydra. The Propeller was going to be used as the CPU/GPU of planned BlackBox video game console. I can't say that it does interest me, the big consern is that 8 cores sounds like a lot to look into managing. Call me a cowerd, but the scale is intimidating.

Also as for Spin, from what I understand it's a very BASIC like language in the way of it's syntax. I know some BASIC, but to be totally honest I'm a shotty one at best. Just passed my Intro Programming (qBASIC), bash Shell scripting, and VB studio classes. Though on the flip side I'll lever get better if I don't try to do anything.

I'm not saying I'm shooting your suggestion down out-right. Simply I think I need something that is a little more... Absolute newbie. 'Cause I don't know jack about programming in assmbly or much about computer logic. I only understand them, and I'm smart enough to know that in the grand scheme of things I don't know much at all.

Thanks for the suggestion I'll keep checking things out.

P.S. Spell check is off sorry for the bad spelling.
vskid wrote:Nerd = likes school, does all their homework, dies if they don't get 100% on every assignment
Geek = likes technology, dies if the power goes out and his UPS dies too

I am a geek.

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Post by myersn024 » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:43 pm

Not that it really matters, but I've looked into SPIN and it is nothing like BASIC. From what I've seen, it's a lot like C and a lot of the programs have assembly language in them to help make the program run faster.

Anyway, I'd say that your next step should be to learn C or C++. If those don't sound exciting, there's a lot of other programming languages to choose from. Once you get a better understanding of basic programming logic, then you'll be better equipped for the type of projects that you were talking about in your first post. However, to make PCI embedded systems, you're going to have to know assembly for the core that you decide to use. Honestly, I learned more about computers from the assembly language class that I took a few years ago than any other programming class that I've taken. Programming in higher level languages like Java and C is easy compared to manipulating individual bytes in individual registers on the CPU. When you're doing that, even addition isn't simple.

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