HBN64 - N64 "Laptop"

Includes but not limited to: SNES, Genesis, Sega CD, PlayStation 1, Nintendo 64, Dreamcast, Game Gear and I guess the Virtual Boy.

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vskid
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Post by vskid » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:12 pm

HBN wrote:Gel isn't light, I'll admit. But I've dealt with them. You are WAY off when it comes to your run time.
$80 worth of gel packs gets you 12v 1Ah. $72 gets 11.1v 6Ah of li-ion. $15 gets 12v 5Ah of SLA. You tell me whats better. Gels might be good, but that place is just a crappy deal.
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Post by HBN » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:31 pm

I totally agree. But its a specialty store. If you can find gel packs that small anyware else, let me know, and I will have your name tattooed on my left butt-cheek :lol: . I haven't had any luck with finding them elseware thus far.
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Post by vskid » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:04 pm

So because theres a specialty store selling an inferior product at an outrageous price, you'll buy it? (I have nothing against lead acid batteries, they're great if you buy them for a reasonable price and portability isn't as important as raw power per dollar)
The li-ion pack I posted is about the size of 4 of the gel packs and costs less, but has 6x the power. If you used gel packs over the li-ion (at least at that price), you have serious problems.
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Post by HBN » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:36 pm

Lithium Ions have nothing on Lead Acids. Absolutely nothing.

Once again, your putting words on my mouth. Stop. I never said I was going to spend that much money. All I said is that I was going to seriously look into lead-acids.

And one last thing, vskid...

Don't insult me. Not now. Not ever. I do what I do, the way I do it because thats how I do it, and it works. You don't have to like it. And frankly, even if I did spend all that money at TRMP for the lead-acids. Its not your money. Therefore, not your problem. And frankly. For a lousy $8 extra, I'd rather get the lead acids because they are the better packs.

And after saying that, I agree that the price is way to high. What more do you want from me?

Argument over.
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Post by timmeh87 » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:38 pm

Ok, theres no need to get mean. However, those batteries do suck balls.

A normal NiMh AA battery weighs ~30 grams. It holds 2500mAh at 1.5v, for a total of 125Wh/Kg.
That battery weighs ~110g. It holds 500mAh at 6v. Thats 27Wh/Kg.

A normal NiMh AA battery costs ~$5.
That battery costs ~$20.

It holds 5 times less power per weight and costs 4 times as much. That makes it 20 times worse :o

Anyways dont actually use a AA battery because they are too small.
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Post by HBN » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:05 pm

The mAh rating only goes so far. All it does is tell you how much power it has available per cycle. I'll admit that Lithium Ions have a high draw, thus allowing a long run time.

But.

People don't use Lithium Ions in robotics because it cant handle the draw that some of these things require. Lead-acids can. As I said before. An N64 and monitor has very little draw (In comparison). Thus, I can use the high-draw efficiency of a lead-acid battery to get an extremely long run time. So its a little heavier. So WHAT?!

The fact of the matter is that Lead-acids, though they don't have a high mAh rating, they do have a draw rating that puts every other battery to shame. Anything that has an engine thats started by a motor uses a lead-acid battery. Thats because they have the endurance and strength to turn the engine over multiple times until it starts. Your not gonna get that with other cells. Period.
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Post by vskid » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:16 pm

HBN wrote:The fact of the matter is that Lead-acids, though they don't have a high mAh rating, they do have a draw rating that puts every other battery to shame. Anything that has an engine thats started by a motor uses a lead-acid battery. Thats because they have the endurance and strength to turn the engine over multiple times until it starts. Your not gonna get that with other cells. Period.
N64p isn't a starter motor. Sure, a N64p takes a good amount of power, but as long as you're using big enough cells, it doesn't matter. I don't know about you, but I'd like my portable to last a couple hours, not 20 seconds. Using gel cells in anything you want to easily move around is dumb, and if you can't find better prices, why not go for the cheaper battery. The only thing I'm saying is that it seems like you're set on gel cells, when theres way better alternatives that are a ton more bang for your buck (and pound).
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Post by evilteddy » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:28 am

Ah*V = The power(W) you can sustain for an hour otherwise known as Watt hours. The amount of Watt hours your batteries have will determine the length of the run time. There is no high or low load efficiency and capacity to draw lots of power all at once has no bearing on the power a battery contains. The amount of power the battery can supply (draw) is important in high load applications like robotics. For example when I want to power my jacobs ladder I do it off the cars battery beacause it can supply 4A at 12V but the nintendo 64 isn't a high load application-

-7.2V*.1A = .72W(On the 12 V line)
-3.3V*1.5A = 5W (on the 3.3V line with expansion pack)
-7.5V*750mA = 6.5W(unmodded ps1 screen)
-2W (for a fan and other finishing touches and tolerances)

Thats 14.5W draw and thats being generous. I also realise you are using a bigger screen so add some more watts on me.

So if we use eight nimh cells (about 10-11V so lets say 10.5) then the draw of the portable in amps would be 14.5/10.5 = 1.4 amps.

So 1.4 amps is hardly the high draw application that calls for an sla. It simply the wrong battery for the job. Sure it can do high draw (which isn't required for a N64p) but it has low capacity and low energy density (2nd lowest energy density rechargeable battery), which are paramount for portable making. Vskid is right use lithiums or nimhs.
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Post by timmeh87 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:33 am

You can use those batteries if you want. They will work fine and what have you.

But everyone posing has enough experience to know that they are not the best batteries to put in your portable. You will be one of the very few people (maybe less than 5) who has ever used lead batteries in your portable.

Car, boat, robot batteries can supply a lot of current because they are /freaking huge/. They design them with a very high surface area inside (many lead plates), and that allows very high current to develop. And also makes them /freaking huge/.

You are talking about how the internal impedance of a battery can reduce the total power at higher load currents. This is correct for all batteries, to some extent. Using AA batteries in a N64 portable is a good example of this effect, Even though they should work on paper - in the ideal case, they cant even start up a portable because so much of their power is lost to internal resistance.

However, battery technology has come a very long way in the last 10 years. NiMh battery packs have 4 or more time the capacity of lead cells, and a reasonably sized one can provide plenty of current. They are actually used in a lot of RC car and robotics applications.

Lithium batteries however, are the king of the battery world. They are made from lithium which weighs practically nothing. Despite this, they have way higher energy densities than anything else on the market. Research into electrodes made of porous carbon has increased both total capacity and current capacity to insane levels. Theres cells out there that can charge/discharge at like 60 or 80 Amps. For a small <10Ah cell. You could charge it in 10 minutes and discharge it just as fast. A lithium battery that is the same physical size as a lead acid battery beats it in just about every way. All the fancy new prototype electric cars use only lithium batteries.

Of course they explode. But they have new LiFePO4 cells that dont.

Anyways, you aren't wrong man, just behind the times. You should research this a little more before you commit to your design.
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Post by HBN » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:05 pm

As you know, I'm using a 9-pin plug for getting the power from the supply to the finished product.

The supply itself is proving a bit difficult because it needs to power both sides of the N64, and the TV. That makes it a bit bulky (PCB will require a box that is approximately 5.25" x 3" x 2.5"). But thats not a huge issue, because it'll spend most of its time sitting on a floor, or table due to the laptop-styling.

Anyways. This is the pin-out I wanted to use with the 9-pin plug.

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I don't see any problems with this, but I thought I'd double check with you folks to be sure.
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Post by HBN » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:00 pm

Made a trip to RadioShack. Pictures to come! Stay tuned!

(I'd put them up now, but I got chores to do. I spent my whole day out of the house (Didn't have much of a choice.), so...yeah.)
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Post by HBN » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:19 pm

Sorry, only a parts list, but at least its progress right?


Power Supply:

12 volt, 3 amp Transformer:
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8 amp Bridge Rectifier:
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The Laptop itself:

Blue Power LED (To replace the red one):
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PCI Slot Fan (32 CFM - if my math is correct, it'll change the air in the case out about 102 times per minute. That'll keep it nice and cool.):
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Along with those, I picked up a generic project encloser for the power supply, and some bread board for for doing the circuitry.

Thanks for the support so far, people. I really appreciate it.
Please keep an eye on my HBN64 progress.
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Post by vskid » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:35 pm

Question. Why do you need a transformer? Why not just use a premade wall wart for your power? Sorry if you said why earlier, I didn't see anything in the first post.
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Post by HBN » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:55 pm

I think I had. But I don't mind.

I got the transformer so I can run the TV and N64 off one unit. Rather than having two plugs for the system.
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Post by bacteria » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:22 pm

That LED is very expensive!!

I thought you were broke, so had no funds??
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